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Quake seriesQuake 1 - Audio Tracks / Cuesheet with wrong Timing(7 posts)(7 posts)
(7 posts)
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Posted August 31, 2017
Curious due to this old subject here gog_quake_pc_not_deemphasized I've taken my old Original Quake CD (US Retail/1996) and checked it with CDDA2WAV, and then I've noticed/confirmed (*1) that the playtime of the tracks where different between my original cd and the gog image:

US RETAIL CD (6-11350-22666-0) [CD Name QUAKE101]
#Cdda2wav version 2.01.01a61_cygwin32_nt_1.5.25-0.156-4-2-_i686_i686, soundcard,
libparanoia support
DATAtrack recorded copy-permitted tracktype
1- 1 uninterrupted no data
AUDIOtrack pre-emphasis copy-permitted tracktype channels
2-11 no no audio 2
Table of Contents: total tracks:11, (total time 71:07.32)
1.[12:09.41], 2.( 5:08.45), 3.( 2:26.01), 4.( 8:20.19), 5.( 6:05.29),
6.( 7:24.44), 7.( 8:38.17), 8.( 5:35.69), 9.( 6:28.69), 10.( 5:15.31),
11.( 3:34.42)

GoGs CUE/BIN Image [CDName Winquake]:
#Cdda2wav version 2.01.01a61_cygwin32_nt_1.5.25-0.156-4-2-_i686_i686, soundcard,
libparanoia support
DATAtrack recorded copy-permitted tracktype
1- 1 uninterrupted no data
AUDIOtrack pre-emphasis copy-permitted tracktype channels
2-11 no no audio 2
Table of Contents: total tracks:11, (total time 72:34.14)
1.[13:22.14], 2.( 5:12.47), 3.( 2:28.02), 4.( 8:22.20), 5.( 6:07.30),
6.( 7:26.45), 7.( 8:40.18), 8.( 5:37.70), 9.( 6:30.70), 10.( 3:34.43),
11.( 5:11.30)

I've extracted the Audiotracks from both (Accurate Rip was fine for the Original CD, except that the AR Database doesn't know about Track 11 (Audiotrack 10)) and compared them in Foobar
Total Audio Length Original CD: 58:58, GoG CUE/BIN: 59:12

The Start from the second audiotrack on my Original CD is at position ~ 5:09/5:10 from GoGs 1st Audiotrack... and from thereon I can continue, the CUE information is simply wrong - though I haven't figured out the difference in overall playtime, but I would guess that it is mostly due to silence.

I can't compare the other two CUE/BINs from GoG, as I do not own the physical medias for them, does anyone can verify that those CUEs are correct or also with bad track infos for the audio part?

[1] : Even if that is not my question - for completeness sake: My Original CD doesn't have the Pre-Emphasis Bit set (Neither in TOC, nor Subchannel Data), neither has the GoG Image if the CUE sheet would be correct in that context (The BIN Format doesn't store Subchannel Data, those Metainfo belongs withing the Cuesheet and there it isn't set). Due to the Audiotracks not beeing identical (Start/End) I haven't ABXed the two, but so far I am not convinced that GoGs Audiotracks needs to be De-Emphasised (And from the brief comparison so far, I doubt that I will change my Opinion on that).
Post edited August 31, 2017 by Sha_n_Dra
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Posted September 01, 2017
Ok, obviously my previous search on the subject lacked some keywords and missed this quake_the_offering_music_desync_fix
and this quake_the_offering_incorrect_cue_sheets one.

Even with fixes for the cuesheet(s), with just one drawback i've noticed: The Silence from "Gaps" is now included within the audio tracks as silence at the end of the songs and they are +-~ 2 seconds longer then the original tracks (At least for the quake 1 cd, as I cannot check for the 2nd Expansion). My Original CD doesn't even include the extra silence between tracks (Except for the last one), but from the last post (#22 by micartu) within the second link on top, at least that "winquake" CD includes some.
So some Math, Editing and adding of INDEX 00 entries (taking away the extra silence at the end of songs and adding it back as GAP information at the start of each track (further reading: Hydrogenaudio-Wiki/Cuesheet))) is still needed ;>

And also strange is that the appearance of Track 10 and 11 changed from my Retail CD to the one used by GoG, the Soundlist found on the NineInchNail Wiki and those CDDA2WAV Reports found within the De-Emphasis Topic over at the Hydrogenaudio-Forum... (*1)

Ok, to be honest - GoG should IMHO reimage those CDs to a correct CUE/BIN Combo....

[1] : Ah, at least I've found my CD via its CAT Number on the Labelside [203-029-08] -> quake_registered_1.01_id ... and the side is confirming that for my retail CD the track order 10/11 is changed (see also picture #2 under the ToDo Part of the page)...
Post edited September 01, 2017 by Sha_n_Dra
Posted September 01, 2017
So, we continue our e-mail conversation here. :)
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Sha_n_Dra: Even with fixes for the cuesheet(s), with just one drawback i've noticed: The Silence from "Gaps" is now included within the audio tracks as silence at the end of the songs and they are +-~ 2 seconds longer then the original tracks (At least for the quake 1 cd, as I cannot check for the 2nd Expansion).
Only the main CD seems to have this effect as far as I can tell by listening to the tracks while observing the player's timer. Both expansions seem to have "normal" endings of 1-1½ seconds.

Mind that track 11 of the main CD doesn't have it either, since there's no track behind it and thus no 2-sec gap.

Alternatively to inserting PREGAP entries into the cue files, you could cut all tracks except for track 11 by two seconds. Sox can do this, here's the Linux shell syntax (it works in bash at least):

cd /path/to/your/track/wavs
mkdir trimmed
for file in track*wav; do sox $file "trimmed/$file" trim 0 -2; done

Attention: For simplicity, this processes all tracks including no. 11. You'll have to exchange it with the uncut version.

In Windows, the following might work. I got it from here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40819332/audio-batch-trim-beginning-and-end-using-sox

cd E:\path\to\your\track\wavs
mkdir trimmed
FOR %%A IN (*.wav) DO sox "%%A" "trimmed\%%A" trim 0 -2
Posted September 02, 2017
V4V: Mh, I would Prefer INDEX 00 Entries over PREGAP ones (See Hydrogenaudio Cuesheet). And on the "physical" Media the Pre(!)Gap is at the start of each track, adding the Pregap info of the following track to the end is just the (default) way most ripper/encoder are dealing with the subject (see EAC GAP Settings as an example and for further information). And on Windows I would use EAC and tell it to detect GAPs (*1) and to leave them out in the encode (at least in this one context (*2)), but with known and fixed gaps your script is a good start ;)

[1]: Which of course is in need of a correct CUE and mounted image (Or correct CUE and burned image (and I am not going to think about the drives write offset, there are just too many unknowns into our current chain from the original source to let that be a matter of thought))
[2]: towards the task in making a script for the audio extraction for owners of the current GoG.BINs
Post edited September 03, 2017 by Sha_n_Dra
Posted September 03, 2017
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Sha_n_Dra:
I guess then, ripping and batch cutting off the +2 seconds from track02-10.wav before further encoding actually is the easiest solution. :)
Posted September 07, 2017
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Sha_n_Dra:
avatar
V4V: I guess then, ripping and batch cutting off the +2 seconds from track02-10.wav before further encoding actually is the easiest solution. :)
Jup - But we should verify that those cuts of the trailing 2 seconds won't truncate sound data (hadn't the time to verify that and we are still talking about a modified CUE sheet here) and to get the few Microns [*1] it is off compared to the QUAKE101/QUAKE106 releases you can get the timings from the pictures at quaddicted.com (Somehow the Forum messes up the links if I post 'em without a Linebreak between them):
QUAKE101 (Verified -> Same Timings I get from the TOC of my Disc)
QUAKE106

Noticable here is, that only track 11 has a Pregap of ~<2seconds (According to EAC 00:01 seconds, so there is something fishy about those timings), explaining the different length for the 10/11 changed order tracks between those releases above (Still wondering what the "correct" order should be, even AFAIK all pressings after the 101 use the track3min/track5min order, I am not sure why).

[1]: Not worth it IMHO (as, without comparing the WAVs of a real CD with the ones from the ISO and considering the various offsets that are maybe involved, we won't get the "ideal" entry-point (INDEX 01 CUE entry)), but those less then a second differences are something that's always sitting in the back of my mind and crying out - don't trust that bin/cue, that's not the real McCoy, etc. (and after the comparisons here -> including my physical media now))

P.S.: And I am still curious why the track-length of the Songs is still longer then the time given at the NiN Wiki Quake-Soundtrack page, especially as I do not get down to that tracktimes given there, even if I tell EAC to delete leading/trailing blocks of silence (block (cd frame) := 588 samples, and even remaining in-frame silence couldn't explain the few seconds of discrepancy between CD and NiN-Wiki).
Post edited September 07, 2017 by Sha_n_Dra
Posted September 09, 2017
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V4V: I guess then, ripping and batch cutting off the +2 seconds from track02-10.wav before further encoding actually is the easiest solution. :)
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Sha_n_Dra: Jup - But we should verify that those cuts of the trailing 2 seconds won't truncate sound data (hadn't the time to verify that
I did, and the GOG tracks 02-10 cut by 2 seconds are fine. Their sound stops ½-1 sec before the files end.
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Quake seriesQuake 1 - Audio Tracks / Cuesheet with wrong Timing(7 posts)(7 posts)
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