Hi, i'm new here
Can you beat this game fair and square on unfair without cheesing and exploiying AI) like using movement speed while your other party members shoot and miss most of their shots due to high AC but eventually killing the enemy)

I am asking because cheesing is not fun for me, so wondering if you can actually make character/s that will win the game even if cheesing is required early in the game.

No, you cannot. It is cleary stated.

That is why it is called unfair in the first place.

What makes you think you could with a difficulty called "unfair" ?

The developers warning message before you pick Unfair says your build has to be 'Optimal'.
So anyone reading that would assume that there are optimal builds that can beat the game, at least that's what I assumed.
Plus, Unfair says 'enemies stats are moderately modified' I guess Owlcat are lying through their teeth then lol.

I give you that, that it could be a matter of definition. However, to get the optimal build you have to go through all that what many people define as "cheesing".

That includes something like running a party only with mercenaries, because otherwise you cannot achieve the perfect/optimal build.

Plus you might suffer a lot by dice rolls. Something which cannot be changed. It can always happen you get unlucky and roll a NAT1 equal to be headshotted without knowing what happened.

Depends on what you define as 'cheese'. Making use of superior maneuvrability and ordinary game mechanics are things you can use otherwise they wouldn't be part of the game.

On Unfair difficulty the stats of opponents are skewed against you so you have to use more of your resources available to your party.

since the release of the game i've been watching an incredible skilled streamer who plays on hard/unfair. he is in act4 right now and about to finish the act soon. until now he killed every single boss on hard and on unfair (!) with only the companions. no mercs!

so yes. even with companions unfair is possible. but you need to know exactly what you're doing and you have to have a very deep understanding of the rules and mechanics.

i want to emphasize he is not using any exploits or cheats whatsoever. so yes, again, unfair is possible.

What actually brings us back to what people refer/define as "cheesing". What sounds like making bad analogue aka fake cheese I consider a combination of exploits of game mechanics and of course by doing so using optimun builds. Both only doable with having an extensive knowledge of what awaits you and experience.

There is an interesting forums thread on Steam which I find fitting for this thread:

"A lot of the most recent posts, seem to highlight just why RPG have been dumbed down over recent years, most have been make a cake walk and so easy to understand it borders on patronising, and yet despite this some gamers are still able to find them too complex.

To hear people crying that they want to have the achievement for finishing on unfair, and then to cry on the forums unironically about how "unfair" it is. Or literally have someone state that Owlcat is to blame for not teaching someone how to play the game, this stupidity works in no other walk of life,
"It is the failing of the supermarket that sold me the potato peeler, for not giving me adequate guidance" has been said my no one, ever.

Please stop embarrassing yourselves with these posts. I really do not want to see the last game that actually seems to some what respect the fact some gamers have a brain.

God imagine the outcry if you tried to make a morrowind game now."

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/discussions/0/2963922521553874512/

So yeah, it is called "unfair" for good reasons in my opinion.

Personally, I enjoy challenges and am glad we have "unfair" difficulty in the game. I'm just worried a little bit that over the course of time Owlcat might nerf unfair difficulty - which already has started looking at the recent patch notes.

If you can beat unfair with companions then it probably will become a cakewalk with optimal merc builds - but f Owlcat nerfs unfair it'll be even easier and might not become the challenge some of us would like to have.

so hopefully unfair will still be a challenge in the months (and years) to come.

It is questionable whether it is truly a weakening of said difficulty. If you can believe the patch notes and the developer statements with the Steam forums stats have been fixed which were not intended to be like they were.

But there were some adjustments with Blackwater enemies. It is questionable whether they are important or not, since the adjustments are lorewise reasonable and make sense.

I am seeing unfair more like what it is: unfair. It is not supposed to be managable by normal means.

Divinity Original Sin 2 had at least two situations in which unfairness is shining. No matter how good and well prepared you were, you could still lose and you will most likely lose, unless you exactly know what expects you.

Everything but being able to beat unfair on first attempt without ever playing the game I would consider as that cheese thing. To me knowing what awaits you and acting with foresight is already within the definition of exploiting a playthrough. Not to be mistaken with exploiting a mechanic.

Exploiting mechanics is as old as gaming and many many play sessions would not be possible without them. "Cheesing" a term I guess from modern gamers, really just means using the existing game mechanics to their optimal level (not game breaking exploits). Hell, without them people would never of been able to solo core rules in the old Baldurs series (with some builds, Blade for 1). Try it for yourself, I find core painful enough thank you, :P and my act 1 attempt of unfair was as enjoyable as sticking my balls in a meat grinder. Anyone who can do it, I bow to you, for your insanely high tolerance level to mental anguish.

Depends on what you consider cheesing.
You cannot complete unfair without dipping and optimizing the crap out of your builds. It is however possible to complete without using exploits such as Archmage armor on non-Arcanes, magic vestment stacking on already enchanted armor, and using Expanded Arsenal with mutiple school feats of the same type. It is also possible to do without stacking WIS/CHA to AC from different classes (so no IW 2 / mnk 1 / drd 17 for example).
It is also possible to complete the game without relying on kiting and tricking the AI. By completing the game here I mean finishing the main storyline. It is extremely difficult to take down the extra challenging optional enemies without relying on cheesing tactics on unfair, but they are *optional*.

On Unfair (even to an extent on core or hard) your build options are more limited, and, imo, need to be tested against stronger enemies before your playthrough. You will always be more limited in the types of builds you can bring. You have two competing issues. You either:
1) Restrict yourself to optimal builds that, in my experience, are built around a handful of mechanics that can be effectively used against high-AC, high-saving throw enemies
2) Can build more for role-playing purposes, but give up some of the challenge of the game.

Unfair difficulty doesn't really achieve a balance between the two, IMO. Unfair is for the person for whom the fun is building characters not necessarily for role-playing purposes, but for effective monster-killing purposes. You'll do class dips. Your character builds might depend on alignment shifts. You will bump against the boundary with cheese even if you choose not to cheese. Certain classes or subclasses may not be viable at all.

Unfair isn't my cup of tea (Core is my sweet spot), and I wouldn't sweat if you don't get as much out of Unfair (or Hard, or Core) as the next player on these boards.

In Unfair and even in Core you need to "cheese". I do not mean you need to use buffs before fights (that is normal thing) or that you need to plan your build instead of using recommended options.
But there is cheesing because you most likely HAVE TO reload because you lose your party members or your PC. In normal (non cheese) RPG session your game master would not let you do that. In normal "playing normally game" you are used to "cheese" and reload if you die or if you get "not wanted" end result for encounter.

So I strongly believe that IF you want to go for the end without having to reload after fight you can NOT play using unfair or most likely even core. Using "if you die you start a new game with new PC" as a guilde line.

Now some people might consider "I cheese so I use 3:rd party programs and give my PC and party members all items and stats 25+ when I start the game" but that is more like "god mode" instead of "cheesing the game". But naturally everyone do what they do, it is single player game after all.