I burnt it the second time through - and then someone else dropped off 2000 bucks! I burnt that too, I assume the result would be the same if I kept that amount around...

I think most endings are variations - escaping to Orbistan can be done with anything between 0 and 5 family members, and I think each of those counts as a separate ending, although I could be wrong there. I know if you leave someone behind the text is a bit different, as you'd expect. Still pretty good for such a short game - just hope this gets extended.

For example, I would be a lot more "conflicted" if unarmed people would occasionally jump the wall and just run for it, while I had the ability to shoot them. Since all the guys you shoot are armed, it's not an issue. Plus wouldn't mind a longer story (the free play modes you can unlock didn't hold my interest).

Looking at your discussion makes this game even more brilliant.
Having something so simple and innocent looking to stir up such discussions must be the work of art.
You may be arguing if it is social experiment or just game or whatever else but when do you last saw a gama (or anything else in that matter) go into such depth in moral dillemas. The shear fact that it creates such emontions and makes you think about all of it on so many levels is something.
But yes, the great power of this game is actually that start innocent enough and than BAM! You get situations like the husband and whife dillema out of nowhere in the middle of seal checking frenzy. The more I play and think of this game the more I must say it is one of the most well though projects I'v seen.

In my opinion, the reason for this is that the author just generally knew where to stop when drawing Arstotzka.

A common depiction of a communist state in Western media is made so grotesque that there is nothing to discuss - the depicted country is acting illogically, like the sole purpose of its existence is self-annihilation, failing which making lives of people miserable will suffice. It is anywhere from cringe-inducing to comical, like the cookie cutter villains of B-rated movies.

You can even see people arguing that it is the same here. But in my opinion that is just an inertia of perception.

Arstotzka, even though there is very little information available, actually looks efficient and reasonable (apart from confiscating valid passports - I still don't understand that). Unbelievably efficient, I'd say. It would take an average governmental agency anywhere from a week to a month to establish new policies on the border, especially the ones aimed purely at optimization of work. Arstotzkan MoA makes a dozen changes in one week, reacting to every challenge life throws at it.

The one thing I'd love to have here is story branches where you could report EZIC and your superior for coercing you to break the law. But we can't have it all, I suppose.

I think I didn't got to that part yet :)

I think that this efficiency is very exaggerated for gameplay sake, but than again almost everything is. It is a game after all.

I would like to have that option too. I actuall though there is one and ended up arrested because I gave EZIC cypher to commisar because I thought he would use it as evidence but instead I ended arrested.

My apologies :)

Yes. Some conscious suspension of disbelief is required here. I just imagined that every day was a month for the sake of evaluating progress. Not that I have any problems with it.

Same here. I believe the author missed an opportunity to enrich his narrative.

I'm spoiler proof so don't worry :D

I did something similar, that is thinking it through a month at a time. I wonder why the author didn't do something like that though, i.e. skip a number of days at a time. It could easily be explained that you're one of many on a roster, and the "daily" rent costs would make a hell of a lot more sense too (unless there exists a system where you pay daily for these things in some parts of the world?). Citations would have been better at the end of the day IMO, although it may have made it more frustrating trying to figure out what you overlooked.

BTW even a month is quite fast for any bureaucracy to do anything in any Government. Over here in Australia, the cogs of Government move very slowly. It would likely take at least a month to consider the possibility of forming a committee to look into the problem... Ever see the British show "Yes, Prime Minister"? It could almost be a documentary and is equally applicable to Australia due to the similarities in our political systems... ;)

I also tried that, but after I had given Corman Dex (or whatever his name his) the paper which triggers their involvement - so I gave him one of the coded papers in other words. It's harsh but may not necessarily be unrealistic, depending on how repressive the regime is. So in other words, I half-expected to be arrested given the way he was talking. In some ways he's one of those stereotypes of Communist (or at least totalitarian) regimes you speak of. I was half expecting him to say "If you are honest, you have nothing to fear" - and he said something close enough anyway.

There is some truth to the "propaganda" - although being from Russia you would possibly have first-hand experience of the situation, depending on when you were born of course. I agree that perception plays a role, and propaganda definitely does too - everyone uses it, and viewing 50's propaganda reels from the USA are just as hilarious as those from the Eastern side. But I digress...

Anyway, if the regime is heading towards Stalin/Saddam Hussein levels, then that would make sense - however, that would make it very inconsistent since many people are wanting to enter Arstotzka, as opposed to leave it, which would indicate a number of other regimes in the region are worse. Maybe they have repression and worse poverty?

BTW I never actually tried to give the very first slip of paper to the inspector (before handing it to Corman) - did anyone try that? If not then maybe it'll work. At the very least there'll probably be a response specific to it - I found a couple of tiny things in this game like that (like the pedo guy).

I suspected it would be nigh-on impossible to report your boss though - he's probably at a level where he's above suspicion. At the very least he probably has connections, so it would bite you in the butt. That would likely be the case in almost any society, BTW, not just a regime such as this one - at least that's my cynical view of the world... :)

BTW anyone who gets into the whole "theme" of this game may possibly enjoy KGB (the adventure game - I think it's here on GOG actually). Very difficult (but rewarding) point-and-click adventure game, full of cliches and stereotypes, but done well IMO (although the plot gets a bit loopy towards the end).

I believe, that there is no way to get rid of the hooded man and/or Corman apart from handling the papers as they request, since you are unable to follow your gut instinct telling you to detain them immediately and they won't go away by themselves. It is the same a couple of times further into the story, when you follow the requests of EZIC because you are left with no other choice. So you are invariably associating with them when the intelligence officer first speaks to you and you are forced to keep the contacts secret to avoid imprisonment. It is sad and counterintuitive, like having to accept Jorji's passport and get a citation despite zero intentions to flee the country.

Taking into account the 20th ending, the officer is simply strict and thorough as one would expect of an intelligence officer, but not cruel.

I also consider that it would have been very interesting if after learning about your, pseudo-voluntary as it is, involvement with the EZIC the intelligence would have made you a double agent. But, I guess, the author just didn't have the budget for such plot twists.

It would be a poor propaganda if it were all lies, unless we are speaking Goebbels levels of "creativity".
And you seem to share the common misconception that Stalin's regime was unattractive, while along with the well-known and often exaggerated cons it had its weighty pros as well. But I think this kind of dispute is inappropriate in a GOG forum, so I'll leave it at that.

Whereas Arstotzka is concerned, it is painted in broad strokes, leaving room for interpretation.

Take as an example the beginning of the game, where you win a job in a lottery. I am under an impression that most of the players view it as a symptom of a severe unemployment problem. I, on the other hand, think that, based on the fact that the Ministry of Labour gives out work permits for immigrant workers without solid contracts, high or even noticeable unemployment rate is unlikely. This makes the lottery the Arstotzkan attempt at introducing a social lift for citizens of the rural areas. They also provide free accommodation to the new employees. Isn't it a good thing?
They have also just won a war, which makes them one of the stronger countries in the region, probably having a powerful momentum built up from the war effort and contributions flowing.

I can't and don't say that the decision of the author is unbelievable - I also consider that irrespective of the regime many a man in a position of power could behave exactly like that and come out clean, it is just sad and unpleasant. Mainly because we don't have any context and have no way to influence the outcome. Now if the boss blackmailed us for our misdeeds, if any, to force another in his favour, or if we had an option to report him and live on, it would feel a lot better.

Double-agent - yes! I was hoping that after the expected tough "grilling" from the inspector, he'd at least realise you were "helping" them because: a) they had nothing wrong with their papers, so you weren't helping them really, just doing your job, and b) you wanted to help out your country's glorious security services, and were just waiting for an opportunity to dob them in (which you can't do until the inspector arrives, since the game gives no other options).

Or the Iraqi Information Minister during the last Gulf War!

Well having always lived in western countries, having never visited Russia, I only have documentaries and other documents/reports/papers to go on.

I also won't dwell on this, except to say two things:

1) Stalin's regime did bring about significant changes to the economy, which one could argue contributed greatly to Russia's ability to rapidly expand its armed forces and successfully repel the German invasion. The ruthlessness was an asset in this regard, of that there is little doubt. The fact that all other allied countries assumed Russia would collapse quickly (and were surprised when it didn't) backs this up.

2) This ruthlessness had lots of negative consequences from what I know - at least for most ordinary people. Having most of their food sold to foreign countries so the country could arm itself left many people to starve to death, not the mention the fact that more people were purged by Stalin during the war years than were casualties of the war directly. Although I agree we shouldn't discuss this too much here, if this fact as I know it is wrong, I'd be interested in references pointing out the contrary.

I didn't assume it was an unemployment problem, I actually just assumed it was one of those regimes where the unskilled don't apply for jobs, they're appointed by the state - in this case via lottery. Wouldn't surprise me if University graduates in the country are also "appointed" to a job based on what the State requires, as opposed to applying for them. I'm not sure how common that was in real life, but it happens fairly often in dystopian societies in fiction anyway. There's also that guy that wants you to "red stamp" him so he can quit his job in Arstotzka (although why he doesn't just call them to quit is a mystery - what are they going to do, hunt him down? I think he wasn't an Arstotzkan native - if he was then that would make more sense, and would fit in with this logic I reckon).

The foreigners coming in would suggest at the least that there are skill shortages in key specialist areas. Although there are unskilled laborers coming in too, which either means they have shortages in general (as you say), or they're coming in for another purpose (like those hookers at the start). I imagine that after a war they would have had some casualties, not to mention damage to their infrastructure, so they need to rebuild their this and their economy in general, so it makes sense to want to bring in foreigners to supplement the locals. Also they only recently "acquired" this half of the city (which was the main thing the war was over from what I gather), so they'd want to not just repair it but also remodel things in it (possibly).

They provide free accommodation? Don't we have to pay rent every day? I know that if you run out of money you go to a work camp "until your debts are repaid" (first game where I tried to go too fast and had lots of citations while never skimping on food or heat, this happened to me). They do "assign" you a flat (as part of your job), but you can upgrade - although you're limited (workers only go up to level 5 apparently - I assume "officials" or something may get more priveleges, like the fancy car your boss has).

I don't believe Arstotzka is communist, although the slogans and images conjure up a "Soviet-style" image - if it were, then accommodation would surely be free (possibly heating as well), and you surely wouldn't get paid per person processed (although I guess they could have quotas and punishment for not meeting them, which could potentially equate to the same thing). I guess they could in theory lean towards communism but not necessarily adopt all elements strictly - there were many flavours of it around.

The city you're in and the checkpoint is possibly based on Berlin during that period, but there are significant differences (notably, both sides of the border seem to have oppressive regimes).

The only thing I think is definitely clear is that it's an authoritarian regime - that's clear from the way the inspector talks to you (and how easily you can be arrested), plus the fact they take the passports from all people from a certain region (and later the whole country) based on suspicion (so pretty heavy-handed security). I still reckon that they do this mainly to stop them from leaving the country, although in that case they should mandate that any Arstotkan who is denied entry is arrested instead (since how else can they be investigated?).

I was actually hoping he would waive that "fine" he gave me for having crap on the walls (in future playthroughs I just removed them before he turned up), or provide me with bonus or some other privilege. I suspected he'd be pissed off if I didn't help him, but figured that should just result in an intense audit - which would be one of those where even if you're squeaky clean, he finds something anyway, and then you're simply fired, at which point you and your family have no money and are forced into a work camp. He kind of does blackmail you - well sure it's a fabricated misdeed, but the threat is implied.

This is a great discussion, but let me chime in with my own opinions. When I started to play this game, I too was horrified about my natural tendency to play it safe and by the rules. But then I thought, why not. From a purely roleplaying perspective, I got this job in a lottery and I should county myself lucky, so why bite the hand that feeds me? The system may be authoritarian, but it has done alright by me. I earn enough to pay the bills and keep my family healthy. I can even save a small amount of money every day for my son's birthday. I am not made of stone, however, so I'll give in to an occasional sob story or a bribe by someone who seems harmless. I even let in Jorji with drugs because he made me laugh, and I could use the bribe for moving into a better apartment. Not every discrepancy is a forgery – sometimes it can be a small clerical error on the part of the authority who issued the entry permit.

As for the Order, they seemed too sinister to trust in my first playthrough. Maybe they were behind the killings, which I disapprove. Maybe they use different methods, but secretly want to replace the current tyranny with their own, in which case I'm more in favour of political stability than violent upheavals that will leave citizens no better off. And maybe they're actually officers of the Arstotzkan Secret Police who want to test my loyalty to the State. In any case, they've given me no reason to trust them.

So I play it safe. I'm a cog in the machine, and it's not my right to decide who gets in or not, just verifying whether their papers are in order. Being just a little corrupt won't harm the state too much and will greatly help me. If you were the border inspector in real life, would you ruffle feathers and make waves for groups you know very little about? Would you risk the lives and wellbeing of your family for strangers who might just be trying to deceive you? When you're in that position, being obedient is the best way to go.