I would like some advice on a char for SoU and HotU.

I was thinking on doing a melee human sorcerer(5)/fighter(1)/Red Dragon Disciple(10) (and sorcerer levels until the end) for the expansions, but I'm afraid to end up with a character too weak for melee fights. The reason for going melee is mainly because I played a ranged sorcerer on the OC, and would like to change a bit for the next run. Also, RDD seems to be suited for being close to the action.

for stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 16

The fighter level is there just for the armor and weapon feats, and I would also get some spells aiding in combat.


I don't mind if the character is not the most powerful beast in the game, but I would like to be able to finish the game. I don't really want to find out in the middle of the game that most of my attacks are ineffective.

I searched around and most of the builds focus on fighter classes, leaving bard and sorcerer on level 1, which doesn't inspire much confidence that this would work.

So, what do you think? Is this an hopeless build, or could I get by the expansions with it (even if I have to reload a bit more)?

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. The Sorcerer class is just not well-suited to multi-classing, and Red Dragon Disciple offers nothing to help his spellcasting abilities. Bards can make the RDD path work in a pinch, but most of the time they're going to wear heavy armor and pretend they don't have spells at all. For everyone else you take one level of Sorcerer or Bard to meet the prerequisites then never look back.

Sorcerer 4 / Fighter 1 / Red Dragon Disciple X will probably get you through SoU just fine, but you'll probably be wearing heavy armor by the end so Bard is preferable. In HotU, progressing as a Sorcerer will not be a viable option. Your spellcasting progression is just way too far behind and will never catch up to a level where it's relevant. If you try that, all you'll be doing is making yourself weaker in melee.

If you want to play a warrior spellcaster, the Cleric and Druid are your best options. Surprisingly, a Fighter/Rogue also does the job fairly well since the "use magic device" skill lets him use scrolls and wands without class restrictions. Otherwise, there just aren't many options if you want to go down this path. In Neverwinter Nights 2, the Eldritch Knight prestige class does what you want to do, but it doesn't exist in NWN1.

Welp. Back to the drawing board.

Thanks :). I'll keep the Eldritch Knight in mind when I move to NWN2.

A good build that does work is Bard X/Blackguard 4/Red Dragon Disciple 10. The blackguard can add his charisma bonus to his saving throws, and X times a day to his damage or armour class using the divine might or shield feats. The bard uses charisma to cast spells and power his bard-song. And the RDD boosts your CHA score even further. And, more importantly, keeps your STR score competitive so you can actually hit things.

Defensively, your saving throws and armour class are incredible. (Bard gets the Tumble skill, RDD boosts armour class, you can wear heavy armour and use a shield to boot. And that's before divine shield and defensive bard spells.) Damage output is very good too. The only weakness is a lower than average base attack bonus, but you still have enough for 4 attacks per round as long as you take the last two RDD levels in epic. Curse song lets you hit things easily enough.

By the end you'll have enough bard levels to have the best bard song and cast all the bard spells, which include some very good defensive ones like Improved Invisibility and Darkness. Darkness, interestingly enough, can be cast in full armour without chance of spell failure. For other spells you'll need the Still Spell feat. (That means you'll miss out on the level 6 bard spells, but those suck anyway.) Bardic spellcasting isn't too impressive, but with your high CHA score making them hard to resist they won't be completely useless.

It's not a true spellsword, though, since you'll be relying a lot more on special abilities (bard song, curse song, divine might, shield) than on spells. But I find it a lot more fun to play than the purely fighter-based RDDs. Plus, you get the Use Magic Device skill, so you can use scrolls and wands to blast things if you want.

Warrior mages do kind of work in NWN, but they're tricky. I love the idea of them, so I tried playing the OC as one... and that was a painful experience. I made a different one in HotU who worked much better. The trick is to have as few fighter levels and as many mage levels as you can. I ended up with fighter 2/wizard 18 pre-epic, and mostly added wizard after. He fought unarmoured, relying on buffing spells for protection and flame weapon for extra damage. A mage with a greatsword and empowered bull's strength will hit quite hard, though not compared to RDDs.

The character worked well enough and completed the campaign with no problems, but he did require a -lot- of buffing spells to be able to fight effectively. Honestly, a cleric with some domains for extra spellcasting (air, magic. Travel maybe.) would do a lot better. I like mage spells more than cleric spells though. And the classes do play differently: The cleric buffs to the nines, beats up all the minions, and casts even stronger short-term buffs to beat up the bosses. The fighter/wizard buffs to the nines, beats up the minions with the aid of some disabling spells, and then unleashes all the spells he saved by using a sword to blow up the bosses.

Just FYI, there's a hireling who has a bard>RDD build in HotU. He's also the only hireling who you can have in all the HotU chapters (and you can have him in most of the SoU ones too, for that matter), so you might want to do a different build for the expansions just to avoid being too similar.

If you do want to take the class, remember that although sorcerer/bard is a prerequisite for the class, it improves your skills as a warrior, and not your casting. Therefore, if you try to put lots of levels into RDD and sorcerer you'll get a fairly similar result to if you put lots of levels into fighter and sorcerer - a character who's very weak in terms of spells, and not able to stand up in melee either. Instead, if you want a strong RDD, you should put most of your non-RDD levels into a melee class of your choice, and as few levels as possible in sorcerer/bard. Apparently, you only need one level in sorcerer/bard to qualify, and the other requirement is 8 ranks of lore, which you can satisfy while gaining levels in another class. Thus, best results will be probably be achieved by something like the following:
Paladin 3
Sorcerer/bard 1
RDD 10 *
Paladin 6+

*Make sure you've got 8 ranks in lore when you reach this point, obviously)

Bard would probably be slightly better than sorcerer as you can cast in light armour without possibly losing your spell and get a larger HD, but it's minor and if you want to play a sorcerer go ahead. I mention paladin as they gain some extra benefits from charisma. Whatever you do, though, make sure you play a race which has a favoured class you're taking, or you'll have a 20% xp penalty for the whole game.

The problem with that combo is that Paladins must be Lawful Good, and Bards must be Chaotic Something. Which is why I suggested Blackguard: same benefits as a paladin, for the first few levels at least, but no alignment incompatibilities. (You can be neutral or chaotic evil and qualify for both classes.) Also, no XP penalty because it's a prestige class.

I also think the benefits from more bard levels are at least as considerable as the ones from more paladin/blackguard levels. Even if you somehow get around the alignment issue, (which you won't in the expansion campaigns without installing some kind of override) all the paladin levels give you is some low level spells, hitpoints, and attack bonus. Now, hitpoints and attack bonus are nice, but all in all your defences are so strong already you won't need the hitpoints and you only gain 2-3 points of attack bonus at best. The bard song bonuses alone are better than that, and that's before you consider curse song, bard spells, and all the great bard skills. (Tumble, UMD, spellcraft) Also, you won't need wisdom to cast bard spells so you'll be able to raise STR and CHA higher than on a paladin build.

Bard, despite its image, is really quite a strong class if you multiclass. It has a lot of utility to offer.

Ah, yes, I'd forgotten the alignment restriction on bards. There's no restriction in Pathfinder, which is what I play in pnp, so is the version I'm most familiar with. I didn't mention blackguard as it requires you be evil, which many people don't like.

You did miss out one benefit of paladin/blackguard: the divine grace class feature, adding your charisma to all your saving throws. You only need one level for that, though.

First thing I mentioned in my first post, actually. You're right, it's a big draw of this combo. In HotU you can easily get +10-12 to your saving throws. Add in another 5-6 for spellcraft and a few magic items and fighters will be green with envy. Or possibly glowing red because they failed their will-save versus paralysation..

As for playing evil, it's true that it's not everyone's cup of tea. And it doesn't work too well in SoU, really. But in HotU, there are some great options for playing a complete bastard, which is ideal for this class-combo. Still, it's perhaps better left for re-playing. (HotU is the most replayable of the official campaigns, i.m.o.)

I gather it's not the most powerful class combination out there, but I've had a blast playing a dragon-monk.