Hello all,

I thought I’d finally try NWN2, but I’m feeling a little overwhelmed with the sheer number of options when character building.

What I’m trying to go for is a Human or Elf character that can duel-wield swords while having fairly powerful survivability and damage output for the sake of the OC and MotB. I have Kaedrin’s PRC content installed.

I thought I’d try for a Moon Elf version of this build I found, but I’m still undecided since I’m unfamiliar with multi-classing.

My questions are:

- Does the build I linked look good? Are there any alternative builds to recommend? I’d like to have a reasonably powerful character for a single player experience for the OC through MotB, rather than one based on power gaming.

- If I go for a DEX build, it seems like I’ll be unable to effectively use armor due to the low DEX bonus cap on most of them. Will I be missing out on any unique benefits? Or are there at least other forms of clothing or user mods I can use if I want my character to look good?

- Is the -20% XP penalty significant in terms of the game’s total XP? About what level do people normally finish the OC and MotB?

- About how high of a diplomacy score should I aim for if I want to experience all diplomatic checks in the game? Are there any dialogue checks like in Planescape Torment that require stats be at a certain level?

For my first playthrough, I went with a wood-elf Ranger/Rogue (I think it was 17/4 - might not be the best mix) build which gave two-weapon fighting feats (ranger) and finesse fighting used DEX for attack rolls - in this way you can only use small-weapons (shortswords or rapiers being the best there)
Can also add tumble (rogue) for running around the battlefield and diplomacy.
Having a sneak-attack bonus from hiding in shadows was a plus but not useful against the big bosses.

Armour wasn't a problem as the lighter armours allow for a higher DEX modifier and have enough effects (e.g. immunity to confusion).

Having said that - although he was ok, he wasn't the powerhouse of the team (though he got hit less).

The build you linked to looks ok but the CHA score is very low so you're not going to make much use of the speech skills (diplomacy, bluff, etc)

Edit: I don't have any figures but -20% XP sounds high - I'd try to avoid the XP penalty by choosing a race with one of the classes as their favoured class and keeping other classes within one level of each other - and remember that Prestige classes don't add to the XP penalty so they can be taken as many levels as desired.

Edit2: So if you go with a human then whichever class is your highest is considered the 'favoured class' for the purposes of XP penalty so a ranger 10, rogue 5, wizard 4 (for random example) would have no xp penalty - likewise if that was a wood-elf since ranger is already their favoured class).

If you play for the first time, you definitely want a char without ELC (=you are always 1-3 levels behind the other chars) and exp penalty.

As dual wielder you want as much dex as possible. This means moon elf or strongheart halfling.
Dual wielders do not profit much from strengh, so you need other sources of damage. Usually this means sneak attacs. But OC and MotB have lots of enemies that are immun to sneak attacs.

The build in the link is not good. First, its a deep gnome. Definitely a bad choice for the first time. If you specialize in a weapon it must be a small one (or tiny if you use a small char).

Diplomacy is the most useful conversation skill. Get it as high as possible.

I try to find a good build.

I made this:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?165520

Look at the comments before you play it. Maybe its not as good as I think.
I know a lot but I am not the greatest expert in this game.

Edit: halflings are usually the best choice for dual wielders without ELC. But they are small.
You have to use a small or tiny weapon in the main hand and a tiny weapon in the off hand.

I played a Ranger X/Cleric 1/Fighter 1/Rogue 1 (if memory serves) through both the OC and MotB. Dual wielded. Totally a powergaming character though, as I dipped the one level into the other classes solely for the cheesy benefits (extra Fighter feat, Rogue skill set, Cleric domain feats). I don't recall the Cleric domains offhand, but it was all about the feats. Anyway, he was pretty damned effective, especially after building himself some uber weapons. Sorry i can't remember more details, but it's been ages since I played through NWN2.

It'll work; two weapon fighting is more dependent on your equipment than your class selection, since all it gives you is a large number of attacks. You need to have powerful magic weapons to get good damage output on those attacks. There are lots of great variants of two-weapon fighting builds.

My favorite is the Kaze no Kama (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Kaze_no_Kama) There are only two ways to qualify for the high-level two-weapon fighting feats: have an absurdly high dexterity score, or play as a single-class ranger. The latter isn't very appealing (since you can't use those awesome prestige classes and cannot qualify for weapon specialization) so this means you're pretty much stuck with a DEX build for two-weapon fighting.

At low levels, this will be a major impact on your AC, but by higher levels things like magical rings and amulets will be more significant so it's not a big deal. Yes, this is pretty significant. Not a complete deal-breaker, but if you can get out of it by selecting a different race you should do so. It depends; there are some very hard diplomacy checks that require you to have maxed out skill ranks, but there are also some fairly easy ones that you can pass with just a few ranks (plus there's a bit of randomness as well). So long as you aren't completely neglecting diplomacy, I'd say you're fine.

Kaze no Kama is very powerful at the end.
But in the beginning it is very weak.

Do not try to start the OC with a small char and a strengh of 6. You will be encumbred when you carry more than two kamas and a robe. And do not use a deep gnome in the OC/MotB.
The end result may be fantastic, but the way to get there is a pain in the ass.

I found another problem you might get with kaze no kame.
Kamas are exotic weapons so it might be hard to find two of them before you reach neverwinter.
Things get much better when you can craft weapons yourself.
I made adamantite weapons+5 +2d6 vs evil

Somebody posted a good build under the one I made.
It is very close to Coelocanth´s suggestion. Change barbarien to cleric and remember you must wear light armor to use the ranger feats.

I’d seen the Kaze no Kama build, but for the sake of aesthetics I want to be able to use two swords that are fairly long in appearance.

From what I’ve read it seems like dual-wielding rapiers is a viable option for other builds? Thank you for taking the time to make that build. From the looks of it though, I’d be primarily relying on stealth and sneak attacks? Whenever possible in RPGs I prefer having my main characters be melee warriors that are able to fight enemies head on.

A strengh based ranger is the best dual wielder for a beginner. They do good damage from early on, especially if you take the right favoured enemies. The build in the link under mine is very good in that sense. (again, take cleric instaed of berserker if you like)

A normal dual wielder needs some time and good equipment before he starts to be good.
This http://nwn2db.com/build/?111827 is something I like but it needs at least level 9 before it does some damage.

Two rapiers is a bad idea; they count as a medium weapon and you suffer a substantial accuracy penalty if you use one in your off-hand. To put it bluntly, the accuracy penalty for doing this is only slightly lower than dual-wielding greatswords. Don't put a medium weapon in your off-hand, it's never worth it.

The short sword is the largest weapon that's practical to wield in your off-hand, while the kukri is the best weapon overall for this purpose. The kukri deals slightly less damage than a rapier (on average, 1 point less) but suffers no penalty when used in your off-hand and has an equally-good threat range.

I'll keep that in mind when choosing weapons. Thanks.

Both of those builds look pretty tempting.

The Ranger one though seems to have much lower AC than other builds. Is its survivability compensated for in some other way that I'm not seeing?

Low AC is a reality of life at low levels for a strength-based ranger. He can't wear armor heavier than "light", and his dexterity score is above average at best so his AC bonus there isn't all too impressive. At higher levels, you can compensate with magical rings, amulets, and cloaks that boost your AC. Until then, you're stuck with a chain shirt when a fighter is running around in full plate.

Now, that's not actually a deal-breaker for survivability, and the old maxim holds true: the best defense is a good offense! A dead or disabled enemy cannot damage you, so focus on removing threats as quickly as possible. Spellcasters should focus on spells that incapacitate rather than deal damage; someone hit by a fireball is still capable of dealing full damage, but someone choking on a stinking cloud is no threat at all.

It looks like it is possible to dual wield rapiers effectively.
The second build I made a link to had this feat. http://nwn2db.com/library/feats/?general&g=kaedrin#item_3204

I do not have Keadrins class pack installed myself, so I cannot confirm if it works. The builder has some bugs sometimes.

I decided to go with the second linked "Kensai" build and it's working out nicely so far. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Right now I'm at level 6, about to go up to 7, and I was wondering if it's viable to put one level in Rogue before continuing on with the rest of the build? I want to be able to put skill points into the Rogue class skills so I don't have to rely exclusively on Neeshka for the whole game on stuff like disabling traps and locks.

I used the build editor to test it out and it looks like it won't affect the build progression much (other than sacrificing Great Dexterity + 3 at level 30), but will I still be able to retain the Rogue class affinity for skills like Disable Device and Open Lock after I switch back to Fighter/Tempest/Champion of the Wild? When I tested switching from Fighter to Rogue I saw that I no longer had an affinity for Craft Armor.