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I'm in chapter two of NWN1 HotU, about to hit the place with undead (having already finished the other two, so I can't return to the city without triggering the events leading to the end of the chapter).

So far, I had Rizolvir upgrade my weapon to +10 enhancement (as having two other upgrades locked it out from further upgrading), and was planning to try getting Haste and Regeneration +2 once my money allow. But, now I have to hit the place with undead, where there's an option to put some other upgrade on my weapon (some stat drain, I believe). Does it count towards the limit, as in, will Rizolvir still agree to upgrade my weapon with Haste and Regeneration afterwards?
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piranha1: I'm in chapter two of NWN1 HotU, about to hit the place with undead (having already finished the other two, so I can't return to the city without triggering the events leading to the end of the chapter).

So far, I had Rizolvir upgrade my weapon to +10 enhancement (as having two other upgrades locked it out from further upgrading), and was planning to try getting Haste and Regeneration +2 once my money allow. But, now I have to hit the place with undead, where there's an option to put some other upgrade on my weapon (some stat drain, I believe). Does it count towards the limit, as in, will Rizolvir still agree to upgrade my weapon with Haste and Regeneration afterwards?
I can't remember whether that will count against you with Rizolvir, though I kind of feel like it doesn't, but you can use your relic ring to jump back to the camp without triggering the end of the chapter.
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unclejoe1917: I can't remember whether that will count against you with Rizolvir, though I kind of feel like it doesn't, but you can use your relic ring to jump back to the camp without triggering the end of the chapter.
I figured that out, yeah - only once though, at the second jump the Seer starts the end chapter events.

I plan to see if I can get in by normal entrance (since the messenger has initially spawned elsewhere, maybe he won't be there now), and reach Rizolvir.

If not, I'll make a backup save before getting the Black Pearl upgrade, and see for myself in Chapter 3.

Shame on me, I didn't think to set a teleporting waypoint by Rizolvir earlier, oh well.

(If I manage to get in, I also plan to buy some weapon for Valen, and upgrade it using the second pearl, if it won't count against the limit.)

Edit-update: I managed to get in normally through the gate, though it involved some running from the messenger (blessed be Boots of Speed). Managed to set in a teleporting waypoint by Rizolvir, too, maybe it all works out for me yet.
Post edited November 14, 2019 by piranha1
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unclejoe1917: I can't remember whether that will count against you with Rizolvir, though I kind of feel like it doesn't, but you can use your relic ring to jump back to the camp without triggering the end of the chapter.
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piranha1: I figured that out, yeah - only once though, at the second jump the Seer starts the end chapter events.

I plan to see if I can get in by normal entrance (since the messenger has initially spawned elsewhere, maybe he won't be there now), and reach Rizolvir.

If not, I'll make a backup save before getting the Black Pearl upgrade, and see for myself in Chapter 3.

Shame on me, I didn't think to set a teleporting waypoint by Rizolvir earlier, oh well.

(If I manage to get in, I also plan to buy some weapon for Valen, and upgrade it using the second pearl, if it won't count against the limit.)

Edit-update: I managed to get in normally through the gate, though it involved some running from the messenger (blessed be Boots of Speed). Managed to set in a teleporting waypoint by Rizolvir, too, maybe it all works out for me yet.
Haha! Nice!!! There's no substitute for good, old fashioned speed.
I usually tackle chapter 2 by hitting all the camp stuff first, then I go to the two islands, coming back to sell stuff betwee them. Then I load up on healing potions and have Rizolvir set me up as well as I need until I see him in Chapter 3. That merchant in Drearing's Deep is awesome, so I use him to dump off extra junk so I don't have to head back to the camp until I'm done.
Post edited November 16, 2019 by unclejoe1917
I'm now in chapter three, about to go back to Waterdeep and kick the Big Bad where it hurts.

How difficult is he to beat, without the means to skip it (as I didn't have enough gold for that - trying to skip spoilers here) ?

Also on topic of Rizolvir yet - the weapon I had enchanted is that +8 Strength, -4 Dexterity sword, but since I later ran into much better (I think) strength increasing items, I'm thinking to mess with replaying the modules a bit, get the Holy Avenger sword from SoU again (I'm playing as paladin/Champion of Torm) and upgrade that one. That's what I'm unsure about though, the game's Wiki describes Holy Avenger as giving +5 enhancement for paladins, will the regular +10 enhancement for gold work with it, or should I seek some different sword (if so, got any suggestions?) ?
Post edited November 16, 2019 by piranha1
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piranha1: I'm now in chapter three, about to go back to Waterdeep and kick the Big Bad where it hurts.

How difficult is he to beat, without the means to skip it (as I didn't have enough gold for that - trying to skip spoilers here) ?

Also on topic of Rizolvir yet - the weapon I had enchanted is that +8 Strength, -4 Dexterity sword, but since I later ran into much better (I think) strength increasing items, I'm thinking to mess with replaying the modules a bit, get the Holy Avenger sword from SoU again (I'm playing as paladin/Champion of Torm) and upgrade that one. That's what I'm unsure about though, the game's Wiki describes Holy Avenger as giving +5 enhancement for paladins, will the regular +10 enhancement for gold work with it, or should I seek some different sword (if so, got any suggestions?) ?
Really, it's dealers choice. You have so many options along the way, especially once you have access to Rizolvir, where you can get yourself as much weapon as you need to handle anything. Don't forget you'll be without the Holy Avenger for the whole first chapter of HotU, but you should be able to enhance it more when you get it back before Chapter 2. I've always found that by the time I get my original, stolen equipment back, I don't care about it anymore.
As long as you have a healthy stash of healing potions, beating him is more of a matter of grinding it out than it is particularly difficult compared to a couple others in Hordes.
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unclejoe1917: I've always found that by the time I get my original, stolen equipment back, I don't care about it anymore.
True for most of the gear, I think that weapon is still pretty cool for paladins, though, at least as long as enchanting it to +10 will work. I guess I'll try and see for myself.

As for the Big Bad, thanks for the tip, gonna get some more of them (my team is me, Valen and and Nathyrra, so no healer, other than my one use of Lay on Hands).
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unclejoe1917: I've always found that by the time I get my original, stolen equipment back, I don't care about it anymore.
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piranha1: True for most of the gear, I think that weapon is still pretty cool for paladins, though, at least as long as enchanting it to +10 will work. I guess I'll try and see for myself.

As for the Big Bad, thanks for the tip, gonna get some more of them (my team is me, Valen and and Nathyrra, so no healer, other than my one use of Lay on Hands).
Good luck! Let me know how it goes. You've got me thinking about rolling up a paladin and playing SoU now.
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unclejoe1917: Good luck! Let me know how it goes. You've got me thinking about rolling up a paladin and playing SoU now.
Thanks. :)

Fairly easily, I shared my Cure Critical and Heal potions among the party, and hit it. When the boss disappeared and his summoned creatures came at me, I used the grappling hand to get up there and fight them, then before he summoned me back down, made a Quick Save (having of course made a regular one before the battle), and drank some Cure Critical potions.

Took me two tries, as I was too late with Lay on Hands in one and Velen died.

If you'd really roll up a paladin (and if you'd also plan to aim at Champion of Torm), here's how I was building the character:

Started with human, picking Luck of Heroes and Strong Soul feats. Since I didn't like the idea of paying more than one point per stat point, my stats were 14 tops in anything (not sure, but as far I remember, 14 Strength, Con and Charisma, 13 Dex, 11 Wisdom, and 12 Int for skill points*).

*In hindsight, putting points in Taunt was a waste, as I never used it anyway, so I'd probably go with 10 Int, depending on how many skill points you want.

The skills I was putting points in were Discipline, Lore, Persuade and Taunt (the latter two only on paladin levels, as they aren't class skills for Champion of Torm - on CoT levels I was just leaving those points spare for later - my final, 10th, paladin level was on character level 20, then I put what I was able in Persuade and Taunt, and only took CoT levels since, putting those points in Heal instead - though I also didn't use it much, so again, 10 Int might be the way to go).

Feats-wise, I went with Weapon Focus in Long Sword (with the Holy Avenger in mind, but that +8 Str -4 Dex weapon is a Long Sword too, so it worked out), other than that with (not exactly in the same order, as I took them in game, since I don't remember it):
Power Attack (only as the prerequisite for Cleave)
Cleave
Great Cleave
Blind Fight
Divine Might and Divine Shield (those can only be taken on paladin or cleric level, so had to "time" them right)
Dodge
Extra Smiting
Improved Critical (longsword)
Toughness

Taking, on every second CoT class level, the bonus feat I could, leaving other ones to regular levels (f.ex. taking Dodge as CoT bonus feat, and Extra Smiting as regular character feat).
Whenever I gained a stat point, I put it in Charisma, other than at character level 20 (when my 10th paladin level unlocked second level spells), where I put it in Wisdom to get 12 - though I never really used them, so could have gone with Charisma anyway.

At epic levels:
Great Charisma whenever I could (reached Great Charisma III).
As Epic CoT bonus feats: Epic Weapon Focus (longsword) - I had 17 levels of CoT at the end, with one bonus feat every four levels, so only got one. (I'd probably take Epic Prowess if I hit level 28 character/18 CoT)

---

As for myself and classes, I'm thinking to try cleric next time I play. With right domains, I'd be able to have both Knock and Find Traps spells (Nathyrra is a lousy rogue, I had to make Velen take care of traps, and just smash the chests open, unless she deigned to cast an occasional Knock), and HotU seems to have plenty of good cleric gear lying around. Not sure who would my party be then, mechanics-wise, I'd probably go with warrior-types (Velen and A. - not spoiling things for anyone else here), romance-wise, if I'd want to explore that, Nathyrra and A. (apparently you can get them both, if you play your cards right). If taking the latter, I'd probably make Nathyrra only take Assassin levels, and tell her not to cast spells (especially as she sometimes just cast Invisibility or something to that effect I think, and then just stood there).
Post edited November 16, 2019 by piranha1
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unclejoe1917: Good luck! Let me know how it goes. You've got me thinking about rolling up a paladin and playing SoU now.
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piranha1: Thanks. :)

Fairly easily, I shared my Cure Critical and Heal potions among the party, and hit it. When the boss disappeared and his summoned creatures came at me, I used the grappling hand to get up there and fight them, then before he summoned me back down, made a Quick Save (having of course made a regular one before the battle), and drank some Cure Critical potions.

Took me two tries, as I was too late with Lay on Hands in one and Velen died.

If you'd really roll up a paladin (and if you'd also plan to aim at Champion of Torm), here's how I was building the character:

Started with human, picking Luck of Heroes and Strong Soul feats. Since I didn't like the idea of paying more than one point per stat point, my stats were 14 tops in anything (not sure, but as far I remember, 14 Strength, Con and Charisma, 13 Dex, 11 Wisdom, and 12 Int for skill points*).

*In hindsight, putting points in Taunt was a waste, as I never used it anyway, so I'd probably go with 10 Int, depending on how many skill points you want.

The skills I was putting points in were Discipline, Lore, Persuade and Taunt (the latter two only on paladin levels, as they aren't class skills for Champion of Torm - on CoT levels I was just leaving those points spare for later - my final, 10th, paladin level was on character level 20, then I put what I was able in Persuade and Taunt, and only took CoT levels since, putting those points in Heal instead - though I also didn't use it much, so again, 10 Int might be the way to go).

Feats-wise, I went with Weapon Focus in Long Sword (with the Holy Avenger in mind, but that +8 Str -4 Dex weapon is a Long Sword too, so it worked out), other than that with (not exactly in the same order, as I took them in game, since I don't remember it):
Power Attack (only as the prerequisite for Cleave)
Cleave
Great Cleave
Blind Fight
Divine Might and Divine Shield (those can only be taken on paladin or cleric level, so had to "time" them right)
Dodge
Extra Smiting
Improved Critical (longsword)
Toughness

Taking, on every second CoT class level, the bonus feat I could, leaving other ones to regular levels (f.ex. taking Dodge as CoT bonus feat, and Extra Smiting as regular character feat).
Whenever I gained a stat point, I put it in Charisma, other than at character level 20 (when my 10th paladin level unlocked second level spells), where I put it in Wisdom to get 12 - though I never really used them, so could have gone with Charisma anyway.

At epic levels:
Great Charisma whenever I could (reached Great Charisma III).
As Epic CoT bonus feats: Epic Weapon Focus (longsword) - I had 17 levels of CoT at the end, with one bonus feat every four levels, so only got one. (I'd probably take Epic Prowess if I hit level 28 character/18 CoT)

---

As for myself and classes, I'm thinking to try cleric next time I play. With right domains, I'd be able to have both Knock and Find Traps spells (Nathyrra is a lousy rogue, I had to make Velen take care of traps, and just smash the chests open, unless she deigned to cast an occasional Knock), and HotU seems to have plenty of good cleric gear lying around. Not sure who would my party be then, mechanics-wise, I'd probably go with warrior-types (Velen and A. - not spoiling things for anyone else here), romance-wise, if I'd want to explore that, Nathyrra and A. (apparently you can get them both, if you play your cards right). If taking the latter, I'd probably make Nathyrra only take Assassin levels, and tell her not to cast spells (especially as she sometimes just cast Invisibility or something to that effect I think, and then just stood there).
I'll probably follow a similar blueprint, but I usually don't put much planning into the feats I take. My stats were 14, 15, 16 for Wis, Cha and Str, then 10s in everything else.
It's too bad Nathyrra has some of the worst AI of any henchman in any game I can think of off the top of my head because she is otherwise really freaking cool. I still drag her around pretty frequently. I guess looks do matter. Lol.
For some reason, I can never get into clerics much. One of my favorite all time builds was a rogue, assassin, weapon master who specialized in scythe. The sneak/criticals were ridiculous.
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unclejoe1917: For some reason, I can never get into clerics much. One of my favorite all time builds was a rogue, assassin, weapon master who specialized in scythe. The sneak/criticals were ridiculous.
There is some bizarre theoretical build floating around that maximizes damage from a single hit. Scythe Paladin/WM I believe. The levels were so crammed that they couldn't even take enough WM levels to expand the scythe's crit range.

So (once?) per day, this character can attempt Smite on an evil target that is vulnerable to crits, and they get a 5 percent chance to deal over 2000 damage in a single swing, youch.
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unclejoe1917: For some reason, I can never get into clerics much. One of my favorite all time builds was a rogue, assassin, weapon master who specialized in scythe. The sneak/criticals were ridiculous.
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tristanlist: There is some bizarre theoretical build floating around that maximizes damage from a single hit. Scythe Paladin/WM I believe. The levels were so crammed that they couldn't even take enough WM levels to expand the scythe's crit range.

So (once?) per day, this character can attempt Smite on an evil target that is vulnerable to crits, and they get a 5 percent chance to deal over 2000 damage in a single swing, youch.
It looks like getting Great Smiting is the key to this.
https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Great_smiting
I assume that once you've gotten all the required feats just to get to weapon master, you have to start piling on Paladin or Champion of Torm levels to advance your Great Smiting feats. I'd be curious to see what that build can do compared to mine somewhere around the 26th-28th level which is where Hordes leaves your character. I kind of want to mess around with this now.
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tristanlist: There is some bizarre theoretical build floating around that maximizes damage from a single hit. Scythe Paladin/WM I believe. The levels were so crammed that they couldn't even take enough WM levels to expand the scythe's crit range.

So (once?) per day, this character can attempt Smite on an evil target that is vulnerable to crits, and they get a 5 percent chance to deal over 2000 damage in a single swing, youch.
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unclejoe1917: It looks like getting Great Smiting is the key to this.
https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Great_smiting
I assume that once you've gotten all the required feats just to get to weapon master, you have to start piling on Paladin or Champion of Torm levels to advance your Great Smiting feats. I'd be curious to see what that build can do compared to mine somewhere around the 26th-28th level which is where Hordes leaves your character. I kind of want to mess around with this now.
Your sneak attack scythe is a million times more consistent performer for sure, it was just an exercise to get the highest possible damage in a single hit. I suppose the paladin would be good against bosses in the campaign, though, since they are all evil and most are forcibly immune to crits. Might get some funny 500 damage smites against them with that stack of great smiting feats.
Post edited December 05, 2019 by tristanlist