I've started to play a melee bard in SoU that I would like to take across a bridging module and into HotU. I played a melee bard through a good part of the OC, but it was poorly built. This one is better optimised and looks good in the CBC spreadsheet. It has 12 levels of Bard before level 20, running to 15 at level 26 where HotU will probably stop. The concept is that of a melee character who will run in with bard song and curse song all buffed up and hit hard, and then pull back using Tumble to minimise damage taken.

Now that I'm at level 2 in SoU the toon is fairly weak, and as I recall a bard needs to pile on levels to build up a head of steam. Should I increase the bard levels to 16 before level 20 instead to have a stronger bard song and curse song early on, or should I focus on tactics to get through the early parts of SoU and have more feats?

I've summarised the stats and builds below for comparison, and put the present build I want to use at the end of the mail.

Thanks for reading!

Both: Human, true neutral. Str:16 (22) Dex: 14 Con: 14 Wis: 8 Int: 10 Cha: 14 (15)

Present: Bard (15) Fighter (6) CoT (5)
Alternate: Bard (20) Fighter (2) CoT (4)

Present build details:

Bard(15), Champion of Torm(5), Fighter(6), Human

STR: 16 (22)
DEX: 14
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 10
CHA: 14 (15)

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Bard(1): Power Attack, Luck of Heroes
02: Fighter(1): Cleave
03: Bard(2): Lingering Song
04: Fighter(2): STR+1, Weapon Focus: Greataxe, (STR=17)
05: Bard(3)
06: Bard(4): Curse Song
07: Fighter(3)
08: Bard(5): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Bard(6): Blind Fight
10: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
11: Bard(7)
12: Bard(8): STR+1, Extend Spell, (STR=19)
13: Champion of Torm(1)
14: Bard(9)
15: Champion of Torm(2): Knockdown, Great Cleave
16: Bard(10): STR+1, (STR=20)
17: Champion of Torm(3): {Smite Evil}
18: Bard(11): Toughness
19: Champion of Torm(4): Improved Critical: Greataxe
20: Bard(12): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
21: Fighter(5): Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe
22: Bard(13)
23: Fighter(6): Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
24: Bard(14): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=22)
25: Champion of Torm(5)
26: Bard(15)

I don't see the point in Great Cleave in the current plan (especially at level 15). Greataxe may be a poor weapon choice (IMO) on this build. You could use single-handed weapon so that you can use a shield to add to AC instead. Champion of Torm is questionable here as well - you may be better off simply going for more Bard, or consider RDD for some stat boosts.

Divine Might and Divine Shield are worth considering too (and perhaps upping your Charisma), but would require you to get rid of CoT or Fighter to get it (I would drop CoT).

I played HotU a number of times with two-handed weapons. It's a choice for more offense over defense. IMO, it's the more fun choice. Usually not worth it unless going to level 30 or beyond. You end up taking away Strength points (Damage and AB) to add Cha (Damage but no AB), that only has limited activations/rest. Not a great tradeoff IMO.

Thanks jimbobslimbob and PeterScott for the comments.

@jimbobslimbob - the great axe was put in on a whim, with the idea that huge criticals would help get through damage resistance. But I'm not sure the toon has enough HP to get away with it. Great Cleave was a filler feat - I usually prefer at least 13 Int so that Expertise and Improved Knockdown are available.

I put in Fighter for the additional feats, and because (like CoT) it gives full AB per level. Keeping AB at 16 or above gives a fourth attack per round that would be lost otherwise. Another advantage of CoT is that five levels boosts your saves significantly.

Cleric (the quickest way to get Divine Might etc) is only 3/4 AB and does not give additional feats, and would in fact delay a Bard feat. Paladin would need to go for three levels to get Divine Might, and Bards cannot be lawful good as far as I know.

But as PeterScott said at higher levels Divine Might may well work. @PeterScott, thanks for the idea on the odd-level split across 20. I'm so used to thinking in fours that has never occurred to me. I've never tried Luck of Heroes before, and since I've already started I would probably boot out Great Cleave.

I've heard that HotU is high magic, so there should be plenty of Cha-boosting gear. As far as I remember a bard needs a natural 16 to access 6th level spells, but I'll have to check.

Yes, lot of magic gear, but it is always a tradeoff, of which awesome gear you want to wear.

Yes, Bards need natural, unmodified Cha 16 to cast Level 6 spells. My changes added a "free" point of Cha at level 21, boosting you to 16 Cha.

Then you need Bard level 16 to unlock Level 6, but at Bard-16 you get ZERO level six spells/day. You need get Level six spells then from gear that adds level 6 spell, or enough Cha gear to get bonus Level 6 (22 Cha IIRC).

But at Bard level 17 you get 1 level 6 spell and you don't need the gear, but you always need the Natural 16 to cast level 6 spells.

Your HP aren't terrible. My very first HotU play through was an Elf Fighter/Rogue/WM using a Two-handed sword, so only 12 con and I don't think I had toughness either, since I needed so many feats for WM.

Also remember that a level 16 Bard song can give you +20 HP and +5 AC...

IMO, play the weapon that you fancy, they all work just fine in Hotu.

My last play I was Strength based Halfling Fighter/rogue/SD wielding a Scimitar in Two Hands.

IMO, Two handed just does more damage, and is more fun.

You can always carry a second weapon set with Shield for when you feel you really need the defense.

Commonly I would carry a big two handed sword as primary (and specialized), and a blunt weapon and shield for undead, when I really wanted to minimize getting hit.

Typically I worry about getting hit not because of damage, but because the creature has nasty effect (Poison, disease, level drain).

@PracticalKat - You're welcome, I hope you enjoy the build you settle on playing. The beauty of NWN is the diversity of its character building!

Yeah, two-handed definitely has its place. I would save them for the really high strength and/or crit builds though. Something with mediocre DPS should balance a bit more with defence IMO, but at the end of the day you play what you like.

I am playing as human bard in SotU now - mixed with fighter and RDD. I'm using scythes and curse song to weaken harder or multiple enemies, buffing myself before fights and being at the beginning of chapter 2 I really like this build. RDD gives tons of raw stats and 4 FTR levels offer weapon spec and extra feats of course. In terms of feats i took blind fight, selected weapon feats, curse song, power attack and cleave (aiming for impr. crit.), I am lvl 10 at the moment (3 bard, 3 FTR, 4 RDD) and the game is fun.

The first few levels are really tough though. Taking fighter levels early helps a lot, mage armor and magic weapon spells are also useful. And since you are not casting spells in fights (I don't event think it is useful to do so since 0 and 1 lvl spells are not that great), use heavy armors. I'm running in half plate, wearing it off to buff myself and it's fine. And keep in mind that SotU is actually harder than OC, especially starting as 7 hp bard with no armor. I also decided not to take companion so it's even harder at the beginning, but that extra exp you get pays off eventually.