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dtgreene: World of Xeen, on the other hand, feels better on Warrior difficulty. Thing is, magic in WoX feels underpowered compared to physical attacks, particularly on the Darkside, and the fact that Adventurer difficulty only boosts physical attacks just makes that imbalance worse.
Really? This is very interesting if true, I've never read a FAQ that claimed this.
I'll be sure to play it on Warrior mode then!
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dtgreene: World of Xeen, on the other hand, feels better on Warrior difficulty. Thing is, magic in WoX feels underpowered compared to physical attacks, particularly on the Darkside, and the fact that Adventurer difficulty only boosts physical attacks just makes that imbalance worse.
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UndeadHalfOrc: Really? This is very interesting if true, I've never read a FAQ that claimed this.
I'll be sure to play it on Warrior mode then!
At least that's my understanding.

Also, I believe that, if you're level 14 or below, you get double experience from kills for whatever reason, another mechanic that isn't documented.

And yes, Warrior is what I recommend for World of Xeen (but not Swords, as I mentioned).

Edit: Worth noting that the double XP isn't as big a deal as it sounds, as late game the limiting factor for leveling up is gold, not experience. This actually becomes annoying, as the game keeps giving you millions of XP, allowing you to qualify for more level ups, but basically stops giving you gold, so you can't actually afford the training.
Post edited January 23, 2023 by dtgreene
It would be even less tedious to simply play a better game than Swords of Xeen.
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GeistSR: It would be even less tedious to simply play a better game than Swords of Xeen.
But then you don't get to experience Swords of Xeen.
I'm not seeing a downside here.
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GeistSR: I'm not seeing a downside here.
But are you seeing a Darkside, by any chance?
Nice

I do like Darkside quite a bit, minus the bonus postgame content that felt kind of empty.
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GeistSR: Nice

I do like Darkside quite a bit, minus the bonus postgame content that felt kind of empty.
To me, the "postgame" suffers from a few different issues:
* The game stops giving you gold; the Dragon Tower is the last location to have a significant amount of money. This means that, for example, you are unable to level up your characters because you can't afford it (cost of gaining a level scales quadratically, while the XP required for a level up doesn't scale past a certain point that you are well past at this point). This has the result of making XP useless.
* Even worse, one of the postgame dungeons requires that you pay millions of gold in protection money, or else you have to go through traps that do absurd amounts of damage. If you try to train the levels you've earned, you're not going to be able to pay.
* The one feasible way to level up is with things that give you +X Levels (permanent), which are single-target, so the game ends up favoring leveling up a single character at the expense of everyone else. (If you have day of protection/sorcery items, then the Barbarian would be a good choice; have that high level Barbarian use the items, and cast Recharge Item if they run low.)
* Enemies are strong enough that you basically need Day of Protection to do decent damage, and since that only boosts physical attacks, offensive spells (excluding Mass Distortion, which is a cleric spell, so the sorcerer still doesn't get to do much) are basically useless at this point. You get to the point where a sorcerer does more damage with an obsidian dagger than with a powerful spell.
* AC also becomes a problem, as the core mechanic of having to roll a fixed size die to hit AC doesn't scale well. (D&D and d20 system games have this issue, especially if you're running 3.0's Epic Level rules.) Furthernmore, the only enemies that target AC and are of any threat at this point preferentially target your Cleric, so as a result it's only worth boosting your Cleric's AC, and only for that one dungeon; otherwise, armor is essentially useless. (Worth noting that enemies using magic attacks elsewhere in the game makes AC less useful than you'd expect, and when combined with the fact that all equipped armor breaks (not just the torso armor, unlike MM3) once you reach -10 HP, it just becomes not worth bothering with armor.

I do recommend doing Dragon Tower, especially with that one minotaur dungeon being a real pain if you do it before that tower, simply because it does give you nice rewards (especially if you go there early), but after that, the later part of the "postgame" just doesn't give you enough rewards for it to stay interesting.
As for MM2:

I also want to point out how BALANCED the game felt, despite being super old.
Balance between the character classes, balance between physical attacks and magical attacks, balanced random treasure.
The game never fells too hard or too easy, apart from a few times when it's very hard ( very very early game, and very very late game)

All in 1989. Quite a feat!
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UndeadHalfOrc: As for MM2:

I also want to point out how BALANCED the game felt, despite being super old.
Balance between the character classes, balance between physical attacks and magical attacks, balanced random treasure.
The game never fells too hard or too easy, apart from a few times when it's very hard ( very very early game, and very very late game)

All in 1989. Quite a feat!
I would say it even feels more balanced than the legendary World of Xeen.

By the way, here's an MM2 challenge for you: Remember that group of 3 Cuisinarts? The group that you could run into early in the game, but did not have a chance of defeating because they were too strong for low or mid level characters? My challenge for you is to not only defeat the Cuisinarts, but have that be your *1st* victory; in other words, you can't win *any* other battles before winning this particular fight. (I have done this, though it does require knowing about the various tricks you can use. I did use the Frenzy glitch when I did it, but I know of a way to do it without.)
Maybe in a few years I'll try to tacke your challenge, I do plan on replaying it; but for my main party, using a Barbarian and Ninja instead of Knight and Robber.

This one was my very first game of MM2, and when I encountered the Cuisinarts the first time by accident they wiped me out, and when I encountered them again by accident ( I had long forgotten about them), I wiped them out easily.
Post edited January 24, 2023 by UndeadHalfOrc
MM2:
Come to think of it, now that I've encountered and killed the Orc God, the only enemy in the game I have not managed to defeat is the Mega Dragon. He still wipes me out with 8000 dmg energy attack. My fighters can't even damage him.

I have no intention of trying again. My energy resistance is already pretty good (ask the Ancient Dragon and his pathetic attacks!) and I have no intention of grinding to 8001 HP, even with potions.


Oh well, at least King Kalohn vainquished him thanks to me, with the artifacts I gave him, so I guess that counts :P
Post edited January 24, 2023 by UndeadHalfOrc
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UndeadHalfOrc: MM2:
Come to think of it, now that I've encountered and killed the Orc God, the only enemy in the game I have not managed to defeat is the Mega Dragon. He still wipes me out with 8000 dmg energy attack. My fighters can't even damage him.

I have no intention of trying again. My energy resistance is already pretty good (ask the Ancient Dragon and his pathetic attacks!) and I have no intention of grinding to 8001 HP, even with potions.

Oh well, at least King Kalohn vainquished him thanks to me, with the artifacts I gave him, so I guess that counts :P
I actually don't think the Mega Dragon is meant to be killable. It's immune to all physical attacks and has the highest possible magic resistance.

Getting over 8000 HP with potions isn't that hard; 5 uses of a Max HP Potion +5 will do the trick. (And getting the potion to +5 is easy thanks to the 200 SP fountains; getting it any higher is tedious.) Don't forget that you can also recharge the potions for more uses.

Also, using gold equipment (as an item) can temporary boost your level, and it tends to be more powerful than using Skill Potions.

Then again, you could just cast Frenzy followed by Finger of Death, if you want to use the glitch method (and don't mind having a party member die and (temporarily, at least in the DOS version) lose a point of Endurance).

I don't think you get anything for killing it.

On the other hand, there's that one orb that, in order to obtain, you need to do what honestly feels like an exploit, but apparently it's the required method. (Incidentally, I ran into a similar situaiton in Wizardry Gaiden 3.)
The Orb dismiss trick is extremely silly, I like to think of it as the Orb specifically blocking YOUR PARTY from leaving because you're the "chosen ones", but the same sentient magical force doesn't bother doing the same inventory check for a random mercenary shmuck because of his insignificance. ;)

Kinda like comedy cop movies where thieves sneak in/sneak out valuables of a highly guarded area by masquerading as a maintenance employee, janitor or electrician ;)
Post edited January 24, 2023 by UndeadHalfOrc