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So Memoria is the first game since the last Bioshock to actually get me thinking about the story and the conclusion. Not much, but I enjoyed the story enough to at least keep thinking about it after I finished playing it.

As the thread title states, THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS!!! Ye have been warned.



So, the ending is quite bittersweet. I thought it was satisfying, but not in the happily ever after way. I haven't played Memoria's predecessor, Chains of Satinav. I thought the surprise conclusion to Sadja and Stickman's story was moving, but the binary choice given as to what to do with Nuri seemed rather contrived to me. Despite losing much of her memories I don't see how much she could have lost after having been restored, other than being forced to just take Geron's wild story at his word. Who's to say that given time she wouldn't start to remember things anyway? Heck, she might even feel better now that she now lacks a personal recollection of all the bad things that happened to her. I even have to question the moral and ethical wisdom of letting her stay a crow. Even though she seemed happier the more her mind changed, it is difficult for me to determine how much of that she wanted and how much was forced on her due to the nature of the transformation's effects on her mind. Since I haven't played Chains, I don't know what reason she had for her bleak outlook on life other than her condition. From what I've heard it has something to do with some misfortune or another that befell her in the fairy realm which the game never really bothers to explain. At one point Geron mentions something about her parents, but I didn't know what that meant. Still, the theme of blissful ignorance occurs more than once in the story. But just how happy can one be with a bird brain?

Bryda's demise also seemed forced and contrived. This actually kinda ticks me off. I don't remember the narrative ever saying anything about the mask being used to possess anyone. I guess the genie just tricked her? And why did it just spontaneously combust after being told the truth? I suppose it is because Bryda guessed wrong and Satinav reigned divine retribution on her and by extent - the mask. But Satinav would have known the truth about Sadja anyway so why didn't it happen immediately? I guess it's supposed to be ironic that the know-it-all Bryda was fatally wrong for once; and I know that she expressed a desire after reading the journal to return to a time of "real" magic, but intellectuals like her don't usually tend to be whimsical idealists. Her sudden desire to play with "real" magic just seems contrary to her character. And she didn't deserve that. It's even more insulting that it just feels so forced and contrived to me. It's like they even try to justify it by explaining how she's a traitor now but - then again - aren't they all?

For a moment it seemed as though there was going to be a choice to let Nuri go and save Bryda, but that never happened. Instead, the decision at the end seems rather one sided to me. Still, I don't think I could have saved Bryda anyway, given that - under the circumstances - she brought it on herself.

I enjoyed the story and the characters and the ending, even if parts of it were rather awkward. Sadja and Stickman definitely stole the show, though.
Post edited June 29, 2014 by eVinceW21
I thought that Geron was going to use the mask to restore Nuri. It seemed like such an obvious solution.

As for Bryda, she was vaporized because Geron revealed that she had made up Sadja's fate. Sadja couldn't have read the writing above the tomb's doorway because she wasn't really a princess and therefore couldn't have read the inscription on the mask either, which is the story that Bryda had invented. Satinav punishes everyone who lies about events in the garden through vaporization. He didn't know what had happened to Sadja because she went into the Garden of Oblivion and never came out again. He makes real whatever anyone says happened in the garden, as long as it sounds plausible, but as soon as he knows it's a lie he sets his phasers on kill.

Anyway, Bryda's fate could have been avoided if Geron had told her about his past adventures. She's clearly mistaken about the world no longer being magical when there are fairies, talking ravens, and some kind of seer walking around weirding up the neighbourhood (I didn't play the first game either, I'm just going by what was mentioned in Memoria). Her desire for something greater is explicitly mentioned by her at several points, so her actions were very much in character.

Bryda's fatal flaw is that she assumed she knew everything. She couldn't see a future beyond doing pointless military duties but evidently the world is much larger than what she'd learned about in the academy. Although she should have been able to figure that out for herself. If there's a magic garden and a man-staff and whatnot hanging around, who knows what other hidden magic is out there?
When you put it that way, I suppose it does make a bit more sense that Bryda simply got careless.

You know it never occurred to me the possibility of using the mask to restore Nuri's memories.

I still don't know why the djinn possessed Bryda through the mask. Why would it have to do that? Why would it even want to?

It seems like the writers missed some pretty obvious opportunities for how to handle the ending. But maybe they just figured they were *too* obvious and decided to force a less predictable conclusion?
Post edited July 02, 2014 by eVinceW21
Just finished the game yesterday, and must say I enjoyed it immensely. It seemed a little slow in the beginning but once it took off I was hooked. Was a bit peeved that it was a sequel of sorts to Chains of Satinaav and not its own standalone game in the same gameworld as I dislike how it referred to events of that game and thus I feel I missed out. Going to have to play that one now...

But I digress...

Back to the original topic: I think on a subconscious level I was thinking like batuten in that I figured the mask would be used to give Nuri back her memories, but now on further reflection, a question: for that to work, it has to contain the memories, right? In other words, it would have had to "read in" Nuri's memories in order to restore them - it cannot restore them in a "presto!" fashion.

I was annoyed that Bryda did what she did, though I understand it. I was thinking to myself: Geron could totally have this girl as a new friend at worst, and potential love interest to replace Nuri if that did not work out. And then she went and did what she did... :-(

Speaking of which, I had a story I planned to tell before she hijacked it: I was going to say that she recited the Djinn of Time's name, and asked him to pluck from the past Stick Man before he got transformed into a stick (thinking that they could live together happily ever after)... only that would have messed things up because if that indeed is what happened Stick Man and Sadja would never have spent their time together, and thus he would not have developed his feelings for her.

As for Nuri's ending, it did feel bittersweet. I was thinking I could change her back, but why bother? As Stick Man said it would only have been her physically... everything else that made her her was gone for good, and in my mind that meant the relationship would have been fake/forced. So I had Geron choose to let her go and live the happy life she was enjoying now and take solace in that.

Lastly, definitely did not see the events of the Epilogue coming, and I hope another game is made to continue the story of those characters from there! :-)

I do have one question: I take it that actually understanding what the inscription riddle over the tomb entrance means was not important, that it was a red herring (the whole fact about the ability to actually read it not-withstanding)?
Yeah, I think the "riddle" was a red herring - it's actual importance not in the words of the inscription but in the secret that Sadja couldn't read them. So the inscription was ultimately important, just not in the way anyone expected.

As for the meaning of the words themselves? Apparently unimportant. Contextually maybe just your standard run-of-the-mill evil curse meant to ward off grave robbers. It is of no consequence in and of itself.

Letting Nuri go in the end just seems to me like lobotomizing her.

Using the mask to pluck Stickman from the tomb in the past isn't a bad idea, actually. You're right about he and Sadja never having met under those circumstances, but that would actually fit with the story's thematic aspects of blissful ignorance. He would have never known Sadja, but he would have lived all that time as a free man. Just as Geron could have let Nuri go if he thought it was best for her, Sadja could have freed Stickman and let him go for his own good.

As for how the masks works in regards to giving memories ... I wonder about that myself. Does it confer the memories of anything anyone has ever remembered ever? Does it hold memories of anything it has witness in "proximity" to itself? Or does it just possess the memories of anyone who's worn it? I think it's the latter. It keeps all the memories it has ever sucked out, and the modified mask can confer those to anyone who wears it.

So if that is true, that idea wouldn't work. Nuri never wore the mask.

I didn't expect it to be a direct sequel to Chains either. I didn't even know it would feature the same characters. But Memoria seems relatively stand-alone. Even still, I might play Chains someday.

edit for spelling
Post edited July 18, 2014 by eVinceW21
Having played and finished both Chains and Memoria, I can tell you a bit about the connection between the two games and their similarities; hopefully, while keeping spoilers to a minimum.

Is Memoria stand-alone or not? Well, Memoria doesn't tell you how Geron and Nuri got together or why she's stuck as a crow; but apart from that and a few bits of unimportant dialogue that you only fully understand after playing Chains, the rest of the game is quite independent. Why is Geron so determined to change is girlfriend back to "human form"? Well, wouldn't you? =) So yes, it's a sequel, but it can easily be played as a stand-alone.

You liked Memoria, should you try Chains? If you liked Memoria, chances are you'll like Chains... but maybe not as much. One thing is the same: the quality of the artwork; but IMO Memoria is the better game. Better story, more interesting characters, more intuitive puzzles, more options... Chains overstayed it's welcome, while Memoria felt too short.

Concerning Memoria's bitter-sweet ending... I think it's very well though of. Whichever you choose regarding Nuri feels unsatisfactory, and at that moment (as far as you know) Bryda was vaporized, Sadja died alone all those years ago and Stick Man wasted all that time for nothing. The game tricks you into believing that there's not going to be anything resembling a happy ending... and then it hits you with the epilogue. Yes, it is moving, not only because those characters really grew on me, but also because I'd already resigned myself to the fact that there wasn't going to be a happy ending.
Not changing Nuri back into her original fairy form is the better ending from the moral point of view. Consider the relationship between Geron and Nuri. In the first game, he was being manipulative towards her. From the very beginning of the second game, he's doing everything to change her back, even breaking into the Magic Academy to look for literature that might provide a clue. Meanwhile, she doesn't seem to thrilled, and would rather be left alone. Nuri has grown tired of Geron, she feels smothered by their relationship, like a bird in a cage. Geron even puts her into a literal cage, and in his mind he only has this selfish goal of keeping her at his side. It's obvious that they aren't a good match, having completely different personalities and all. Nuri is a literal Manic Pixie Dream Girl, an as such very appealing to Geron, although such a relationship wouldn't benefit Nuri in the slightest.

Whether she keeps her memories after the transformation or not is entirely irrelevant. If she does, she'll probably grudgingly agree to stay with Geron as she doesn't have anywhere else to go (her home is ruined). And without her memories, Geron can easily manipulate her into loving him by embellishing the story of their adventures together while omitting how he lied to her.

So it's best if she remains a raven and free. Being free is what pixies are all about, not being smothered in a relationship with a clingy man.
Nicely put. I made that choice myself, following a similar reasoning. I guess this was the one thing where I felt having played Chains first made a difference.
I replayed from my final save to see both endings. I have played Chains earlier, but my view about Geron's and Nuri's relationship isn't as bleak as some other posters' view is. Sure both of them made mistakes, but I don't see hatred between them. They both regretted their earlier deeds during the last scenes of Chains. Biggest problem they had in Memoria is that original Nuri is almost gone and raven's instincts guide her.

I believe that amnesiac Nuri can be happy in either form. The real question is can Geron accept losing her.
The ending for me was too predictable. Way too predictable! Once I found out that the mask can turn things to stone, well, the rest is way too obvious what she did with the mask. So the story and ending was a bit of a let down, there was no surprises, just more drama as is the trend with today's games. I actually was looking for the answer "she turned herself into a stone" when Geron was telling what happened in the garden, but then Bryda interrupted Geron, and that was just cheap when I already knew the answer.

I didn't find the ending having a moral dilemma of any kind. Of course, I play many games where I kill all the kids in them, so asking me about moral dilemmas is going to get a different answer than most. I chose her to return to her original form, because otherwise she would be living a lie. She is not a bird(duh?). What if she was turned into an evil witch or the most evil devil ever? You'd change her back then probably, but it's the same principle, a bird is no different than a devil, both are lies. Don't think so? Didn't you know devils enjoy and love killing little kids? So would she and she'd be super happy to do so in that form, just as in time she accepted being a bird so would she a devil, see, it's no different, a lie by any name is still a lie. I never believed Geron to be a bad person like others in this thread, so I don't think he could do any bad things to her. In fact, I find them a much more happier couple than some in this thread. Putting her in a cage was for her safety in my mind, it had nothing to do with "caging her up".

I didn't like the staff's role in the story in the game, he was just a copy and paste character. Or should I say sword? Or torch? Or lantern? Or staff? Oh wait, already done. It's a shame though, to turn a Dark Eye adventure game into something generic.

I did like the game a lot, because it's set in the Black Eye universe, which is my favourite rpg. So the references in the story relating to the Dark Eye world are cool, but I found the story to be too much drama. Too much boo hooing, that is more of the trend of today's games and not a true story with atmosphere set in a Black Eye setting. The puzzles though, that matter most in any adventure game, were pretty good overall.
The game actually allows for only one viable ending regarding Nuri. The ending of Chains of Satinov was exceptionally disturbing for me as well as the final ending in Memoria. After playing Memoria, I went back to Chains of Satinov and replayed all the sequences that showed Nuri's true self. I also replayed all the sections in Memoria that showed Nuri was changing. The conclusion I finally came to was that, sadly, we had irrevocably lost the fairy Nuri. Nuri can only find real happiness as a raven.

In the replay of Chains of Satinov, mainly the section from where Geron discovers her cave to where Geron rescues Nuri from the crowd.. We discover that Nuri wants to see the world. She is a traveler, observer and curious about everything, but she is not someone who wants to apply her knowledge to bring about change. She accepts everything as it is and sees the good in all things. We also learn that Nuri's fairy body can not survive with out the Waters of the Fairy Well. In addition, being outside of her fairy world, every time she does magic, her life force is diminished and eventually she will vanish like an "insignificant little flame".

In Memoria we learn that her memories of the adventures she had been on since leaving her cave, are a cause of her depression. As she begins to lose her memories, her spirit picks up and gradually she begins to soar, becomes carefree and curious, and, desirous to travel and see the world. She has also made friends among the other ravens and can freely talk to other animals as well as receptive humans. As a raven her body does not require the presence of water from the Fairy Well, nor does she have to worry about magic depleting her life force. Remember from Chains of Satinov, the ability to do magic came from her fairy body. If Goren changes her back from a raven into a fairy, she will not only have to live within a hostile human community, she will also have to carry water from the Fairy Well as well as bring careful not to perform any fairy magic. She will not be able to freely talk to other animals and must bare seeing them treated poorly or caged. She will have to be carful that her magic nature isn't discovered and she well be labeled a witch. In the end, her daily life will be anything but "carefree". She will also probably have many negative experiences regarding the brutal character of human society that will, again, be a source of depression. As a fairy, she will never survive. The life of a raven is much more amenable to her fairy spirit - she would be free, at last, to explore the new world and converse with all its creatures, and live a carefree life focusing just on the present moment.

As sad as it is to loose the fairy Nuri, this is a tale worthy of the Grimm's Brothers and, once she had decided never to return Home, her fate is to become a raven.
Post edited May 26, 2016 by kmikels
One last note on the ending regarding Nuri & Geron. When Geron is asked as to whether he should have Nuri changed back from a raven and into a fairy, the story should allow him to request that he be turned into a raven. If Geron is turned into a raven, both Nuri and Geron will be able to freely explore the world together and both will be free from their past.
Just finished the game yesterday, and have to vehemently to disagree with those who try to pass off "Nuraven" as the only viable, morally defensible position. In-game, Memoria tells you in no uncertain terms that leaving someone a literal blank slate is pretty much the worst thing you can do to anyone (after the staff instructs Sahja to wipe out the ferkina's memories and the way she reacts to the realization of what she's done). Just because, say, an ill patient gets depressed and becomes despondent when things look bleak, doesn't mean one should let them go when there's still hope, especially when they're no longer in their right mind.

The raven option is of the "ignorance is bliss" school of thought, which is perfectly viable and defensible, for sure, but Nuri would eventually lose her sense of self, as per Jacomo's warnings, and in essence you're only letting an animal go to live a carefree existence on its own. An animal with no real survival instincts to speak of, to boot, as others have pointed out.

Conversely, changing Nuri back is selfish to a degree, as it will subject her to further hardship (living as a fairy in a world of humans), but she retains her sense of self. It can be argued that it makes the best of a bad situation, as her memories are gone by then anyway, but it leaves hope that, having retained her true nature, she might come around to a degree, eventually. Plus, she'll retain free will, the ability to choose and to compound what's left of her true self with new memories. Also bear in mind that it was her wish to be turned back, too, and that the adventures - that magic word, the mere mention of which immediately resonates with her as soon as Geron mentions it - she can experience as a fairy and in Geron's company are much more fulfilling for her wanderlust and boundless curiosity than whatever she might do as a raven.

In any event, great game and great, thought-provoking story.
Post edited June 01, 2016 by pearnon

Most of people having played Memoria didn't realize Geron is dead, the same way Bryda died.

Indeed : 3 characters are able to tell Satinav their own version of Sadja's story : Geron, Bryda and the magic staff. The magic staff refuses to be the one to tell that story to Satinav (you can hear him say that if you select the option where Geron asks the staff to tell himself the true story, which the staff refuses). He says he can't but actually the reason is he knows that Geron or Bryda are able to tell their own version of the story after he told his version and so they can cause Satinav to vaporize him by concluding his version of the story was wrong. He must therefore manage to be the last one to tell the true story, at leat the one Satinav will buy in the end.

All that matters to the magic staff is to bring back Sadja because he owns her life. Not even for her but for himself ! That is the meaning of the riddle :

"As the stone rules over the scarab, so rules the scarab over the stone. Enter if to you the answer is known. If not, then FOREVER YOUR LIFE I'LL OWN."

Sadja could not read and yet she entered without knowing the answer to that riddle. The staff thus owns her life forever ! That is why he wanted to bring Sadja back to him, because he owns her life forever.

What happens in the ending is that the magic staff let Geron and Bryda tell Satinav their version first. Bryda starts, and then she is killed by Satinav after he learns and believe the version of Geron to be the true version. After that, the magic staff gets rid of Geron by finally telling his own version of Sadja's story to Satinav. That's the final scene. As a consequence Satinav will have vaporized Geron.

As for Nuri she will be alone with no one to help her get her memory back. That's mean from Daedalic Entertainment !
Post edited June 06, 2017 by erreurs
erreurs: Hello,

Most of people having played Memoria didn't realize Geron is dead, the same way Bryda died.


What happens in the ending is that the magic staff let Geron and Bryda tell Satinav their version first. Bryda starts, and then she is killed by Satinav after he learns and believe the version of Geron to be the true version. After that, the magic staff gets rid of Geron by finally telling his own version of Sadja's story to Satinav. That's the final scene. As a consequence Satinav will have vaporized Geron.

Interesting theory when I first heard about it but I happen to agree with a commenter on a Youtube video about the ending who said:

"(...) the Staff actually agrees with Geron by agreeding that she indeed couldn't read. The story of the staff doesn't contradict Geron's Story. Nothing he said is false, his story was only unfinished, there were empty spaces. The staff filled those, thus leading to Geron's and the Staff's story together being the "right" one.
Their stories complement each other, so Satinav can't punish either one for having lied to him."