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I have played BG trilogy. I understand I'm not a good player because I couldn't beat ToB on Core. But IWD2 simply feels punishingly boring. I have just reached the dam and seriously asking if the rest of the game is like the following:

- They simply throw you more enemies that I can barely handle and call it a good dungeon crawler. This doesn't make sense. Shouldn't the designer promote tactics and more understanding of the rules instead of just gaming the players? In BG the mage duel rules can be complicated but I could handle that, but in IWD2, at least the part I have played, there is simply not much tactics, unless that you call "blocking enemies in narrow passages (because it's narrow everywhere anyway)" and "Try luck (S/L) to block 2-3 spell casters to Hold/Entangle your characters with 3 shooters" as tactics because that's 101 in BG.

- There is no exploration. I'd like to grind for a while but there is no extra enemy unless I spam rest. Every battle depletes certain resources and I pretty much have to rest after each battle. For example the wererats need silver weapons to hurt (this might be due to the EE mod I installed though, but I did not raise the difficulty IIRC), but there is no silver weapon around (I think the ghost tear enchanted dagger is useful but others are not very useful), so basically it falls to luck and the battle can drag on to the point that orc shooters start to melee me.

- My point is, I like resource being restrained, but the battle should reward smart players. I don't really see how much I can improve my gameplay. I mean it's just it, you cannot lure enemies and kill them one by one, you cannot counter spells, you cannot hurt enemies by switching weapons because none of them work great anyway, I really don't see a way to significantly improve my gameplay. I do scouts, I do backstabs, I target spellcasters first, I know some lore (so trolls need fire or acid), I have a balanced party, I spend money on potions and equipment and I do not horde them. I do every quest I can find. I spam rests sometimes. I charm/sleep/hold enemies. For God's sake I steal from everyone too.

What did I do wrong? I really want to enjoy this game because IWD 1/2 are the only games I haven't finished among the IE games. Maybe the game is not for me? But isn't the game just punishingly boring? Like I can make an IWD3 by simply doubling the HP of everything and call it a day?
Post edited September 24, 2022 by levelworm
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levelworm: - There is no exploration.
neither there is in BG2/ToB
(haven't played IWD2 beyond a test run in gemrb, but I consider myself intrigued by it tbh)
That's the charm of IWD 1/2: bigger battles and easier leveling. Still it's not diablo clone.
I share your sentiment. While I replayed other infinity games countless times, I only finished IWD2 twice. The reason is that I found it boring.

The problem to me is that the plot and areas seemed uninteresting. IWD1 also starts a bit slow, but by the time you hit Severed Hand I was hooked. In contrast, as IWD2 progressed I found it less and less engaging. IMO, IWD1 had better writing, more interesting plot, more interesting locations. IWD1 also felt to have more detail to it and more smaller quests (like the back story regarding the origins of the conflict between elves and dwarves that you can uncover, etc.). So to me IWD1 feels more story driven , while IWD2 really feels like let's go further and clear another mob of enemies.
Very few people here played the EE. Vanilla in general is considered easy, especially past the orc fortress. Maybe EE ramped up the difficulty, I'd check on the discord.
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Jigby: Very few people here played the EE. Vanilla in general is considered easy, especially past the orc fortress. Maybe EE ramped up the difficulty, I'd check on the discord.
It's IWD2 topic and there's no EE version of IWD2.
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Jigby: Very few people here played the EE. Vanilla in general is considered easy, especially past the orc fortress. Maybe EE ramped up the difficulty, I'd check on the discord.
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Hemaka: It's IWD2 topic and there's no EE version of IWD2.
OP stated he installed enhancing mod for IWD2.
The first time I played IWD2, I got about halfway through and realized I had ZERO idea what the plot was about. It's just not that engaging. I went back years later and tried it again with a couple mods, the main one being the NPC mod with the party banter. That helped a TON to keep me engaged and I was even able to follow the main story better. It's still my least favorite of the IE games, but I was able to enjoy it.
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levelworm: What did I do wrong?
Don't worry your not crazy. It is hands down the worst of the infinity games they ever made.

Ever single issue you brought up is correct and yet there is so much more wrong with this game.

The worst itemization, some items had a 1% chance to work on hit. I remember reading It was the most rushed of all Black Isles games and they had little time to make it. It has the most cringe worthy and clichéd bother and sister antagonists, i remember laughing out loud at how ridiculous they were. The leveling system and grind was just boring and terrible implemented. They tried to use a third edition-ish DnD ruleset and it just did not work. I just kept saying no way this the is IWD2 we have been waiting for.

Forgettable all the way around.

Really to bad because this game should NOT be forgotten, ever it is the shinning example of all the mistakes that can go wrong even with a studio like Black Isle. I would replay this game to simply avoid and list all the thing not to do in a genre game like this ever again.

IWD and the expansion packs, Torment are some of the best games ever made by any studio, this is simply one of their worst.

"punishingly boring?" yes that is indeed what i remember of this game.
Post edited November 13, 2022 by gloomfrost
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levelworm: What did I do wrong?
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gloomfrost: Don't worry your not crazy. It is hands down the worst of the infinity games they ever made.

Ever single issue you brought up is correct and yet there is so much more wrong with this game.

The worst itemization, some items had a 1% chance to work on hit. I remember reading It was the most rushed of all Black Isles games and they had little time to make it. It has the most cringe worthy and clichéd bother and sister antagonists, i remember laughing out loud at how ridiculous they were. The leveling system and grind was just boring and terrible implemented. They tried to use a third edition-ish DnD ruleset and it just did not work. I just kept saying no way this the is IWD2 we have been waiting for.

Forgettable all the way around.

Really to bad because this game should NOT be forgotten, ever it is the shinning example of all the mistakes that can go wrong even with a studio like Black Isle. I would replay this game to simply avoid and list all the thing not to do in a genre game like this ever again.

IWD and the expansion packs, Torment are some of the best games ever made by any studio, this is simply one of their worst.

"punishingly boring?" yes that is indeed what i remember of this game.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that stupid leveling system where a player was being punished for leveling in two ways. First, by needing more exp to gain another level (which is fine). And then by exp point from killing enemies decreasing with each level. By the end, almost no enemy would provide any meaningful exp. This made dispatching mobs of enemies really feel like a chore.
Nah, low level mobs providing no exp for high level party are fine and make sense. Problem is, there are only a few enemies who provide lots of exp for your high level folks.
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MatiLublin: Nah, low level mobs providing no exp for high level party are fine and make sense. Problem is, there are only a few enemies who provide lots of exp for your high level folks.
Disagree, that's why the amount of experience needed for next level increases. This punishes you already for dispatching mobs of enemies.

But the issue is deeper than this as the scaling itself was off too. By the end, even the toughest enemies provided paltry amount of experience. Basically, by the time one reaches Dragon Eye, one gets almost no experience points from any fights. That is rubbish design unless the plot is very strong to make player want to continue. But the plot itself is weak.
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MatiLublin: Nah, low level mobs providing no exp for high level party are fine and make sense. Problem is, there are only a few enemies who provide lots of exp for your high level folks.
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Lebesgue: Disagree, that's why the amount of experience needed for next level increases. This punishes you already for dispatching mobs of enemies.

But the issue is deeper than this as the scaling itself was off too. By the end, even the toughest enemies provided paltry amount of experience. Basically, by the time one reaches Dragon Eye, one gets almost no experience points from any fights. That is rubbish design unless the plot is very strong to make player want to continue. But the plot itself is weak.
Honestly, 1-2 levels more than supposed provide really good advantage, so there's the reason for the game to not get too strong too fast. Game just needs to give more exp for high level mobs.