I started playing Neverwinter Nights recently and finally started to understand and enjoy the d&d system. I was just wondering on what you guys think of Temple of Elemental Evil and Arcanum as compared to Neverwinter Nights, as they are seemingly viewed as d&d titans. I know BG 1 & 2 are up there too, but I'm kind of hesitant in going before the 3rd edition ruleset... (for now)

It won't be for a long while, but I wanted to know what game I should look forward to, when I finally exhaust Neverwinter of its coldness. Thanks. シ

ToEE uses 3.5 rules, which are very similar. It's closer to the book, though. Everything is turn based and you can execute very specific moves -- examples:

Instead of Power Attack giving +5 dmg, -5 attack, you can set how much damage you want to add (which is the Pencil and Paper method)

Instead of casting magic missile at the same target, each missile can go where you want it to go

You can take 5 foot steps to avoid attacks of opportunity

So, there's a lot more rules. But you can learn them as you play. There's a comprehensive player's handbook built right into the game. So if you look at your roll, it will show you exactly what you rolled with hyperlinks to each ability and feat and skill that went into the roll. It's all very well done.


I haven't played Arcanum yet, but my understanding is that the combat isn't as good as ToEE, but the story is much better.

Also, Icewind Dale 2 uses the same rules and NWN (IWD 1 uses the same rules as Baldur's Gate).

Arcanum is all story, the game is alright but the story is amazing... NWN has the best feel imo and pacing... TOEE is pure combat with the story taking the side seat... graphically NWN is king but TOEE and Arcanum still look great imo...

there great games.. TOEE is closest to real D&D
as for Arcanums rules i have no idea...

Arcanum for Story & Setting. It's more like superior SPECIAL from Fallouts.

ToEE for superior turn-base combat. D&D 3.5

NWN for... well, FR and online play? D&D 3.B

BTW, Arcanum has nothing to do with D&D

Arcanum is a quite good and original game, but it's got nothing to do with D&D. Completely different ruleset and mechanics. It's highly recommended if you enjoy exploration of a big and open world with lots of side quests and if you enjoy steampunk settings.

Temple of Elemental Evil has very good and faithful turn-based D&D combat, if that's what you're after, but IMO not much else to offer.

You're really missing out on some awesome D&D classics if you try to avoid pre-3rd ed., but at least you'll be occupied with NWN for years, if you exploit it to the fullest - where it really shines is the community content, the single player campaigns as well as the persistent worlds for multiplayer. And a guided multiplayer campaign with a dungeon master is probably closest to D&D than you'll ever get playing a video game.

I see, thanks for your inputs. I've heard Arcanum isn't very good combat-wise. And it wasn't d&d? Wow, don't know where that idea seeped-in. I'm not sure if I still want to play Arcanum if the only thing saving it is the story and an open-setting. I mean there are other great story-based games out there, without the addition of combat as an afterthought.

As for ToEE, I'm kind of anxious to play it next with all its incredible d&d simulation. I think it will explain the d&d mechanics more fully with all its calculations showing and what-not. I find it fascinating...

I was looking at Icewindale II earlier and it also could be a major contender against ToEE. Does the game output dice-rolls and calculations like in ToEE or Nwn? Posted while typing my own post haha. How different are the rulesets in Nwn as compared to BG? Right now, I mostly want to get the 3rd edition ruleset down completely. As much as I want to play BG down the road, I'm kind of hesitant to learn a new d&d ruleset when I barely understand the 3rd one.

There are very minor differences, but the only major changes are lower armor class is better (instead of higher) and the additional rule of THAC0, which is a weird to hit chance thing that I honestly just ignore. Also dualclassing/multiclassing is very different, but it's not too hard to figure out.

There's a great "what's different" guide to AD&D on Gamefaqs that I found really helpful when starting on Planescape. But honestly you may as well stick to Neverwinter for now and try some of the amazing downloadable modules for that, and try the Infinty engine games when you have more time (PST, BG1+2, IWD1+2).

Also, ToEE is excellent, but different. It's more of a turn based strategy game, and very close to the original 3.5 rules. Haven't played Arcanum.

I'm not really an expert since I've always been more interested in the stories than the stats and can't claim I fully learned and understood any edition's ruleset. I managed to beat the games and have fun with them, and I didn't care for the rest. From what I know, some things that changed from 2rd to 3rd edition are:

1) The armor class: Prior to 3rd edition, a low armor class was better protection. It started at AC 10 (easy to hit) and from there went down to 0 and then -10 (very hard to hit) or even beyond. There was also something called THAC0 which was a stat to calculate your chances of hitting someone with AC 0, but I won't try to explain it to you.

2) The feats: They have been introduced with the 3rd edition, there were no feats in 2nd ed.

3) Some race/class options, e.g. there were no sorcerers in 2nd edition and your choice of class was dependent on your race, e.g. halflings were not able to become wizards, IIRC, humans could not multi-class (they could learn more than one class but not in the same easy way as other races), and if I'm not mistaken some races even had level caps on some classes and could not learn anything new beyond a specific level, so that humans would always surpass them.

EDIT: Whoops, PenutBrittle was faster. :)

Both (Arcanum and ToEE) are good games. However, if you're looking for D&D, then ToEE is the choice to go with. Just be sure to install the Circle of Eight mod pack. It fixes a lot of bugs in the game and makes it a very, very good game experience.

I've played ToEE for several hours (maybe 7?) and I have to say it's much more harder compared to BG. In BG1 I'd sometimes have tough times when I went to sleep in the wilderness and was ambushed by a group of gnolls (during earlier levels) but it could be done. However because ToEE is the exact translation of 3.5 DnD into a game the gameplay is way harder and complicated.

Like with the aforementioned 5-foot step or various new feats like Cleave - it's all calculated and you really have to think through your moves, especially at first levels. Even a group of some low level monsters can get you unless you know how to move and where to move, which attacks to use and how strong should you make them. You have to learn the mechanics (but if you know 3.0 it's definitively easier). Even the first fight you can get into (the spiders) will kill you if you just charge in or don't have a good party. And unless you know what you're doing when creating your characters, you can easily create something with which it's veeery hard to play with.

But it's a fun game nonetheless, there is a character I remember fondly. It did have a nice atmosphere, though I was wishing later on I had created a normal human/elf ranger who could use swords and not a halfling one that can only use daggers.

Ah, but I forgot about the lack of feats. Good catch.