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General discussion (archive)New Xbox (742 posts)(742 posts)
(742 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 07, 2013
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Elenarie: Its something like the go-to retailer for console games in the US? So they are worried that if they eliminate used games, GS won't stock X1 games?
Retailers won't make as much money on new games that's for sure. But from what we know already games will be tied to accounts either way, and available for purchase and download from Xbox Live, so a lot of people might not even bother with getting out from their houses to get the games.
Posted June 07, 2013
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StingingVelvet: Basically they are freaking out about the idea of people playing shit without paying, even more than Steam does. You have to keep verifying with them you have the right to play what you are playing, which used to be done by showing the disc is in your possession but is now done through a server.
It's much worse than Steam. Steam has an offline mode, the Xbox One doesn't.
Posted June 07, 2013
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Neobr10: It's much worse than Steam. Steam has an offline mode, the Xbox One doesn't.
That's why it says "even more than Steam" in there.
Posted June 07, 2013
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Aver: Actually options to sell used games from your account, give away your used games to your friends and the fact that two persons can be logged-in to the same online account at once and play video games at the same time make Xbox One better than Steam. I wish to have those options on Steam, especially the last one because me and my wife are gamers and it's pain in ass to use Steamworks games.
And since when does Steam require an internet connection once every 24 hours? And since when does Steam check your connection evey 1 hour if you're logged in away from your main PC? I'm sorry, but the Xbox One is far worse than Steam.

And you can't sell used games from your account. You CAN'T, unless you do it at a "registered retailer". How many of these retailers will we have? Don't forget that the Xbox One is a worlwide product, and i'm pretty sure this trade-in model will not make it anywhere else other than the US and Europe.

Also, you can give your game away, but the guy who you are giving it to must have been on your friend's list for at least 30 days, which definitely rules out selling your games online through ebay, for example.

By the way, it has NOT been confirmed if two users can play the same game at the same time on different consoles with just one license.
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StingingVelvet: That's why it says "even more than Steam" in there.
I was just emphasizing, not contradicting your argument.
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Elenarie: Its something like the go-to retailer for console games in the US? So they are worried that if they eliminate used games, GS won't stock X1 games?
Sega has already proven that it's never a good idea to fuck retailers up. If you do, they won't stock your console and they won't stock your games while giving huge shelf space to your competitors. This is exactly what happened with the Sega Saturn and the Dreamcast.
Post edited June 07, 2013 by Neobr10
Posted June 07, 2013
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uxtull: But from what we know already games will be tied to accounts either way, and available for purchase and download from Xbox Live
So what's the point of the hardware calling home once every 24 hours? I'm confused why they did this, will do more research instead of asking mindless questions here. Thanks for all replies on this subject.
Posted June 07, 2013
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Neobr10: I was just emphasizing, not contradicting your argument.
Word.

It is amusing however that Steam would be fully within their rights and abilities to suddenly limit their offline mode to 24 hours. If publishers are behind that whole thing you never know, they could start sending demanding emails to Valve. In another thread someone claimed offline mode is now limited to 2 weeks, which it wasn't before. That could have been a related publisher demand.

In any case I think PC DRM was accepted based on two criteria the XBONE doesn't have:

1) Niche market, a market used to software licensing, a market less heard on the mainstream stage.

2) I don't care about PC DRM because I trust the PC gaming community to keep these games running after support has ended, even it means cracking them.

The XBONE has a much more mainstream market and is a much more closed platform. It loses out on these two factors for acceptance. Also it's introducing this shit basically overnight, while on PC it was a step-by-step process.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the mainstream will reject this... look at iOS sales and Diablo 3 sales after all... but I don't think it's necessarily as simple as "no one cares" either. It could be interesting.
Posted June 07, 2013
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Elenarie: So what's the point of the hardware calling home once every 24 hours? I'm confused why they did this, will do more research instead of asking mindless questions here. Thanks for all replies on this subject.
Well, according to the document they have posted, both physical and digital copies will be added to your games library either way and available on your or someones else unit as long as you're logged in. While the game will be tied to your profile the publishers may allow you to trade it or give to someone.

The thing with 24 hour system check is not clarified for now, possibly it's their way to see if the console was not cracked in some manner to run pirated software.
Post edited June 07, 2013 by uxtull
Posted June 07, 2013
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Neobr10: And since when does Steam require an internet connection once every 24 hours? And since when does Steam check your connection evey 1 hour if you're logged in away from your main PC? I'm sorry, but the Xbox One is far worse than Steam.

And you can't sell used games from your account. You CAN'T, unless you do it at a "registered retailer". How many of these retailers will we have? Don't forget that the Xbox One is a worlwide product, and i'm pretty sure this trade-in model will not make it anywhere else other than the US and Europe.

Also, you can give your game away, but the guy who you are giving it to must have been on your friend's list for at least 30 days, which definitely rules out selling your games online through ebay, for example.

By the way, it has NOT been confirmed if two users can play the same game at the same time on different consoles with just one license.
Steam also has restrictions about offline mode. Games you want to play in offline mode have to be up to date. You have to turn it on before you go offline etc. It also has time limit as pointed out before. I use offline mode a lot (to be able to play games at the same time as my wife) and I know that Steam's offline mode has a lot of flaws. Both offline modes (Steam's and Xbox One's) aren't hassle-free, but Xbox-One definitely wins with option to play on one account at once and it will be ok even if you won't be able to play the same game at once - on Steam you can't play any game when someone is using your account and it's real pain in ass.

And you can't sell used games from your account. You CAN'T, unless you do it at a "registered retailer". How many of these retailers will we have? Don't forget that the Xbox One is a worlwide product, and i'm pretty sure this trade-in model will not make it anywhere else other than the US and Europe.

Also, you can give your game away, but the guy who you are giving it to must have been on your friend's list for at least 30 days, which definitely rules out selling your games online through ebay, for example.
And how it makes Steam better? Xbox One is worse because it allows you to sell or give away your games with some restriction? Steam doesn't allow you to do that at all. I see that you prefer to be completely forbidden to do something, than be allowed to do something with some restrictions.
Post edited June 07, 2013 by Aver
Posted June 07, 2013
totally off track but has anyone else had the feeling of "ooo i want that game", but since the XB1 announcement (previous points to see my major objections) gone "nawh i wont get it" ive passed up quite a few now with the feeling of meh, should just get it on pc instead :(
Post edited June 08, 2013 by chezybezy
Posted June 07, 2013
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Aver: And how it makes Steam better? Xbox One is worse because it allows you to sell or give away your games with some restriction? Steam doesn't allow you to do that at all. I see that you prefer to be completely forbidden to do something, than be allowed to do something with some restrictions.
There's no way to compare Steam and Xbox One. Steam is a digital store, the Xbox One is a console. Console gamers are used to buy/sell in the second-hand market, trade games between friends and everything. Microsoft is basically stripping everything away. The Xbox One is just a underpowered PC within a closed-environment. They're effectively taking away every benefit from console gaming. It won't work.

And even then, we're talking about two different things. When you buy a PC, you are NOT forced to buy on Steam. You can buy your game in any store out there, be it physical or digital. You have a choice. Just look at the number of members here that do not buy from Steam under any circumstances.

With the Xbox One (or any other console for that matter) you don't have a choice. The disc is fucking useless after assigning the game to your account.

As StringingVelvet already mentioned, the PC is a open platform, the Xbox One isn't. if Steam goes bankrupt for some reason, the community will eventually find a fix for everyone, even if that means cracking the protection. If the Xbox One doesn't get hacked, once this console cycle is over (or if Microsoft retires from the console market), you'll probably not be able to play your games anymore. Can you see the difference now? I can still play my Genesis and my NES whenever i want to. With the Xbox One i won't be able to a few years from now. Why should i invest in expensive games (games are NOT cheap) if i will eventually not be able to play them anymore? With the Xbox One you're basically renting games, not buying them.

And to be honest i trust Valve much more than Microsoft. If Valve goes bankrupt and shuts down Steam, i expect them to remove the Steam DRM from their games, while Microsoft will show us the middle finger in the case something similar happens.

By the way, Steam does NOT force DRM into games. There are quite a few DRM-free games on Steam. Microsoft WILL force the always-online thing. Can you see the difference?

I can sell my books, i can sell my music CDs, i can sell my movies, but i can't sell my games. Why? Why is gaming the only entertainment industry where this BS gets a free pass?

But i still think the restrictions within the Xbox One are far worse than Steam. Does Steam check your connection every 24h? NO. Does Steam check your connection every 1 hour if you're not playing on your main PC? NO. You can play your games from ANY fucking device with Windows/OSX/Linux, be it your Mac or that Razor new portable without needing to check yuour connection every 1 hour. That's always online for you.
Post edited June 07, 2013 by Neobr10
Posted June 08, 2013
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Neobr10: And how it makes Steam better? Xbox One is worse because it allows you to sell or give away your games with some restriction? Steam doesn't allow you to do that at all. I see that you prefer to be completely forbidden to do something, than be allowed to do something with some restrictions.
There's no way to compare Steam and Xbox One. Steam is a digital store, the Xbox One is a console. Console gamers are used to buy/sell in the second-hand market, trade games between friends and everything. Microsoft is basically stripping everything away. The Xbox One is just a underpowered PC within a closed-environment. They're effectively taking away every benefit from console gaming. It won't work.

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Neobr10: And even then, we're talking about two different things. When you buy a PC, you are NOT forced to buy on Steam. You can buy your game in any store out there, be it physical or digital. You have a choice. Just look at the number of members here that do not buy from Steam under any circumstances.
Yes, I'm forced to use Steam. It's called Steamworks. Next time read posts before you answer them. I said that I wouldn't mind Steam if I wouldn't have to use it, but I have to if I want to play majority of the games.

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Neobr10: With the Xbox One (or any other console for that matter) you don't have a choice. The disc is fucking useless after assigning the game to your account.
Yeah and my Square Enix, Capcom, Bethesda, Take Two and other games discs are so useful after activating those games on disc. Steam even force me to use some stupid, cryptic methods if I want to install my game from disc.

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Neobr10: As StringingVelvet already mentioned, the PC is a open platform, the Xbox One isn't. if Steam goes bankrupt for some reason, the community will eventually find a fix for everyone, even if that means cracking the protection. If the Xbox One doesn't get hacked, once this console cycle is over (or if Microsoft retires from the console market), you'll probably not be able to play your games anymore.
And what if game won't be hacked? Huh, what then? Wait! I know your answer. "There was no game that wasn't hacked." So, how many consoles weren't hacked? Yeah, exactly. It will be hacked as every other console before.

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Neobr10: And to be honest i trust Valve much more than Microsoft. If Valve goes bankrupt and shuts down Steam, i expect them to remove the Steam DRM from their games, while Microsoft will show us the middle finger in the case something similar happens.
You trust company that threatened you that they will block your games and account, if you won't accept new terms of use and accept that from now on you don't have any rights to your games and games that you already own, are just subscriptions.

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Neobr10: But i still think the restrictions within the Xbox One are far worse than Steam. Does Steam check your connection every 24h? NO. Does Steam check your connection every 1 hour if you're not playing on your main PC? NO. You can play your games from ANY fucking device with Windows/OSX/Linux, be it your Mac or that Razor new portable without needing to check yuour connection every 1 hour. That's always online for you.
Again. Does Steam allow you to sell your games? No. Does Steam allow you to give away your used games? No. Does Steam allow other users to use your account and play your games? No. If I could trade Xbox One account features for Steam "offline mode" (that is also mess and not hassle free) then I would do it without second thought.
Post edited June 08, 2013 by Aver
Posted June 08, 2013
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Aver: ...on Steam you can't play any game when someone is using your account and it's real pain in ass.
This is incorrect. Two people can indeed be logged in to the same account at the same time and play games. I've tested it. One logs in and goes offline. Another logs in and stays online or goes offline, it doesn't matter. Both can play games at the same time from the same account.


And as someone else has pointed out... PC games can be cracked, including Steam games. Pretty much every single one as far as I know. So, technically speaking and legalities aside, you can play Steam games without Steam, and your games would still function with cracks were Steam servers ever to go offline. No idea if that would be possible with the Lamebox Zero.
Post edited June 08, 2013 by Qwertyman
Posted June 08, 2013
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Qwertyman: This is incorrect. Two people can indeed be logged in to the same account at the same time and play games. I've tested it. One logs in and goes offline. Another logs in and stays online or goes offline, it doesn't matter. Both can play games at the same time from the same account.
Yes I know. I use it as I pointed out before, but it's pain in ass in long term - like when me and my wife are using it. It brings a lot of frustration and problems (like when two persons wants to play to different games that uses online features). On Xbox One two person can be logged to the same account at once and be online without any problems.

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Qwertyman: And as someone else has pointed out... PC games can be cracked, including Steam games. Pretty much every single one as far as I know. So, technically speaking and legalities aside, you can play Steam games without Steam, and your games would still function with cracks were Steam servers ever to go offline. No idea if that would be possible with the Lamebox Zero.
Consoles can be cracked too. There wasn't a single console that wouldn't be cracked.

Just to point out again. I'm not saying that Xbox One is better than PC, it's not. But its online features are definitely better than Steam's online features.
Posted June 08, 2013
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Aver: Consoles can be cracked too. There wasn't a single console that wouldn't be cracked.
It's much harder to do today though, let alone when this machine is dialing home every 24 hours. Cracking a Steamworks games someday if I need to will be exponentially easier than cracking an XBONE game, I am sure.
Posted June 08, 2013
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Aver: Steam also has restrictions about offline mode. Games you want to play in offline mode have to be up to date. You have to turn it on before you go offline etc. It also has time limit as pointed out before. I use offline mode a lot (to be able to play games at the same time as my wife) and I know that Steam's offline mode has a lot of flaws. Both offline modes (Steam's and Xbox One's) aren't hassle-free, but Xbox-One definitely wins with option to play on one account at once and it will be ok even if you won't be able to play the same game at once - on Steam you can't play any game when someone is using your account and it's real pain in ass.
Uhm, I remember quite recently I played some newish game that wasn't fully up-to-date and I could play in offline as I had lost my internet. Also, I was playing in online mode a few weeks ago and then I lost internet and I could continue as Steam went into offline mode without any interference. The game in question the second time was Deus Ex Human Revolution, the first I don't remember. About time limits, what exactly do you mean by that?

As for account sharing, how exactly is that justified? You're paying for one license, you only get one license and yes, the account is one deal. You're not supposed to be able to play more than one game (different or not) at the same time. If you're playing with someone else then that other person should get his or her own account. Frankly, account sharing is slightly worse than piracy as with piracy you've chosen a way to not give away any money so it's only a potential lost sale, account sharing you're basically creating two licenses of one not to mention utilizing bandwidth that you paid to use for one person.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)New Xbox (742 posts)(742 posts)
(742 posts)