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We (still) want to hear from you!

We recently asked you guys for feedback based on some potential games that we may be able to sign in the future. The results were pretty clear--and we will be sharing them with you all soon--but we did want to ask you a single follow-up question with an actual real-world game example. One of the games that we would like to add to our catalog is Planetary Annihilation. This is an RTS with many modern gaming features, and we figured we'd use it as our test example.

<iframe width="590" height="332" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Xpze54xgqtg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Planetary Annihilation is distinctive for the following:

- Multiplayer and skirmish focused gameplay; there is no story-based single-player campaign, but AI skirmish matches provide a great single player experience.
- Optional persistent online features such as scoreboards, social features, achievements, and the online multiplayer campaign - a persistent galaxy-wide war; an account with the developer's online service is required in order to use these features.
- No activation, unique codes, or third-party accounts are required for single-player play or, LAN/direct connection multiplayer.
- A unique key is required for Internet multiplayer, and an account with the developer's service is only required for the persistent online features.

Now, that you know about the game's specifics, here's our question:
Post edited April 15, 2013 by G-Doc
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Export: Second of all, you significantly over-estimate how much the average person cares about DRM.
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SLP2000: That's only your opinion.

Many people just refuse to buy games with DRM. There would be no GOG without DRM-free, because if you don't mind DRM, then there's no reason to not buy those games on Steam. Other DD stores just don't deliver all the services that Steam delivers.
SLP is correct.

The only game I've purchased within the last 3 years which had DRM was SC2: HofS. And the only reason I've picked that up is because I've enjoyed the story enough that I want to see how it ends... but I already know that (unless they remove their DRM and "always on" aspects and restore LAN etc SC2 is the last dime Blizz will ever see from me and I used to be a major Blizz fanboy).

These days the first thing I look at in any game is DRM, if it's there I don't bother checking any further and far from "missing out" I still have several hundred games in my collection I've yet to play and a dozen odd kickstarter games (plus more Indy studio pre-orders) that will be coming to me in the future.

"The gaming industry" chants the mantra that 'PC gaming is dead, RPGs are dead, turn based tactical games are a thing of the past, honest gamers don't care about DRM' ad nauseum but with a little digging it becomes clear that even they don't believe that mantra. Their "piracy" numbers are outdated, inflated, distorted and don't distinguish between physical goods, digital products, and counterfeit pharmaceuticals. There are many game projects that were turned down by the "AAA" crowd because they "had no market" which met with resounding success in obtaining crowd sourced funds (even if the games turn out poorly clearly the interest in their type of game play is present contrary to "industry wisdom") and to top it all of many of the big publishers have gotten in bed with the MPAA, RIAA, USCoC etc in supporting things like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/CISPA or the current attempts to convince the W3C that HTML5 standards should be encoded with DRM for the creation of "hollyweb".

In short their heavy handed business practices are slipping, they know it, and they're trying to criminalize the use/production of possible competitors.

On a closing note, most of the folks I know who don't care much about DRM aren't very tech savvy which is relevant because they aren't educated in the areas required to see how that DRM effects their end user experience. For example comparing process load and client stability of a game with and without the steam client and seeing that steam caused higher load and increased instability is beyond their technical training so they do not think of DRM within the full context of it's actual effects on them because they quite simply do not know the source/breadth of those burdens.

Legion
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Export: Second of all, you significantly over-estimate how much the average person cares about DRM.
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SLP2000: That's only your opinion.

Many people just refuse to buy games with DRM. There would be no GOG without DRM-free, because if you don't mind DRM, then there's no reason to not buy those games on Steam. Other DD stores just don't deliver all the services that Steam delivers.
It's not only my opinion. Games through services like Steam sell way, way more than games through GOG, even comparing the same games. There's a reason why a small game making it onto Steam (through Greenlight) is seen as the game "making it", but the same isn't said about GOG. All you can say is "I don't like DRM" or "My friend doesn't like DRM". That's anecdotal evidence that doesn't represent the reality. The vast majority of people don't even know what DRM means, and even if you explain it to them, are they really going to care that they can't install their game on 20 different PCs (even though they can with Steam)? Of course, it depends what level you take it to - anyone would realise how annoying SimCity's DRM was, but simply putting in a serial number is considered a normal part of installing a game for most people. Steam is not even seen as DRM by most users - and I myself would say I don't find it restrictive at all.
Post edited April 20, 2013 by Export
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Export: Second of all, you significantly over-estimate how much the average person cares about DRM.
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SLP2000: That's only your opinion.

Many people just refuse to buy games with DRM. There would be no GOG without DRM-free, because if you don't mind DRM, then there's no reason to not buy those games on Steam. Other DD stores just don't deliver all the services that Steam delivers.
Look at the number of people who bought Diablo III, or more recently Sim City. Or, if we take a step down and talk about online activation, how about Skyrim?

Yes, there are quite a few people who consider DRM an issue (count me in) but there are a lot of people who don't care, or at least don't care enough that it will prevent them from making the purchase. I don't see that changing any time soon. The people who are angry enough to close their wallets just aren't in sufficient numbers to force a change, but it's good to know we do exist in sufficient numbers that a place like GOG can thrive.
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Export: It's not only my opinion. Games through services like Steam sell way, way more than games through GOG, even comparing the same games. There's a reason why a small game making it onto Steam (through Greenlight) is seen as the game "making it", but the same isn't said about GOG. All you can say is "I don't like DRM" or "My friend doesn't like DRM". That's anecdotal evidence that doesn't represent the reality. The vast majority of people don't even know what DRM means, and even if you explain it to them, are they really going to care that they can't install their game on 20 different PCs (even though they can with Steam)? Of course, it depends what level you take it to - anyone would realise how annoying SimCity's DRM was, but simply putting in a serial number is considered a normal part of installing a game for most people. Steam is not even seen as DRM by most users - and I myself would say I don't find it restrictive at all.
Looks like we are talking about different things.

Since we are talking about the GOG and result of the survey that took place here, I assumed you are talking about average person on GOG.

There's no question that most gamers use Steam and they are not bothered with it, but the success of GOG is based on "DRM-free" factor. As I said, there's no reason to buy games outside Steam, if you don't mind DRM.

So when we are talking about average person on GOG (which is basically what we should talk about, as GOG is asking their user base what we think about todays video games market), there should be no question that no-DRM is not significantly over-estimated.




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Darvin: Yes, there are quite a few people who consider DRM an issue (count me in) but there are a lot of people who don't care, or at least don't care enough that it will prevent them from making the purchase. I don't see that changing any time soon. The people who are angry enough to close their wallets just aren't in sufficient numbers to force a change, but it's good to know we do exist in sufficient numbers that a place like GOG can thrive.
As I said above, I was talking about average GOG user.
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SLP2000: snip
GOG is asking their user base what we think about todays video games market
snip
Interesting you should put it this way - I remember being able to take the survey without being logged in.
So I was wondering how likely it is that people that don't have a GOG.com account (i.e. not part of GOG's user base) took part in the survey.
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SLP2000: That's only your opinion.

Many people just refuse to buy games with DRM. There would be no GOG without DRM-free, because if you don't mind DRM, then there's no reason to not buy those games on Steam. Other DD stores just don't deliver all the services that Steam delivers.
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RoseLegion: SLP is correct.

The only game I've purchased within the last 3 years which had DRM was SC2: HofS. And the only reason I've picked that up is because I've enjoyed the story enough that I want to see how it ends... but I already know that (unless they remove their DRM and "always on" aspects and restore LAN etc SC2 is the last dime Blizz will ever see from me and I used to be a major Blizz fanboy).

These days the first thing I look at in any game is DRM, if it's there I don't bother checking any further and far from "missing out" I still have several hundred games in my collection I've yet to play and a dozen odd kickstarter games (plus more Indy studio pre-orders) that will be coming to me in the future.

"The gaming industry" chants the mantra that 'PC gaming is dead, RPGs are dead, turn based tactical games are a thing of the past, honest gamers don't care about DRM' ad nauseum but with a little digging it becomes clear that even they don't believe that mantra. Their "piracy" numbers are outdated, inflated, distorted and don't distinguish between physical goods, digital products, and counterfeit pharmaceuticals. There are many game projects that were turned down by the "AAA" crowd because they "had no market" which met with resounding success in obtaining crowd sourced funds (even if the games turn out poorly clearly the interest in their type of game play is present contrary to "industry wisdom") and to top it all of many of the big publishers have gotten in bed with the MPAA, RIAA, USCoC etc in supporting things like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/CISPA or the current attempts to convince the W3C that HTML5 standards should be encoded with DRM for the creation of "hollyweb".

In short their heavy handed business practices are slipping, they know it, and they're trying to criminalize the use/production of possible competitors.

On a closing note, most of the folks I know who don't care much about DRM aren't very tech savvy which is relevant because they aren't educated in the areas required to see how that DRM effects their end user experience. For example comparing process load and client stability of a game with and without the steam client and seeing that steam caused higher load and increased instability is beyond their technical training so they do not think of DRM within the full context of it's actual effects on them because they quite simply do not know the source/breadth of those burdens.

Legion
same here
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SLP2000: Many people just refuse to buy games with DRM. There would be no GOG without DRM-free, because if you don't mind DRM, then there's no reason to not buy those games on Steam. Other DD stores just don't deliver all the services that Steam delivers.
Well, I've been on GOG for 4 years now and have bought quite a sizeable portion of its catalogue.

I bought and buy games on GOG (and I buy here exclusively) because:
1) It offers mostly quality hand-picked games. A small selection, but a good one, rather than hodge-podge of everything the distributor could lay its hands on.
2) It offers a lot of old games that are usually much better than new ones (for me). And even the new Indie ones often appeal to my taste.
3) It concentrates on single-player games rather than multi-player, online and social games, which I don't play.
4) It doesn't resort to methods such as DLC and season passes to "milk" money from its clientele, but rather offers complete editions at prices I consider reasonable (I do not and will not buy any game that costs more than $10).
5) It does not require me to have a PC client to download or play my games.
6) It's nice that, since there's no DRM, I can simply copy an installer to my wife's PC when she wants to play one (assuming she ever gives up Temple Run 2...)
7) And, of course, it has the best changelog on the planet (http://www.gog.com/changelog). Well, some planet...

So, you see I had and have quite a few more reasons to buy exclusively from GOG. Hopefully, all these will also be the reasons I continue buying here.

P.S. In case it isn't obviously clear, I voted "no" on all the questions in both surveys.
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SLP2000: Many people just refuse to buy games with DRM. There would be no GOG without DRM-free, because if you don't mind DRM, then there's no reason to not buy those games on Steam. Other DD stores just don't deliver all the services that Steam delivers.
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mrkgnao: Well, I've been on GOG for 4 years now and have bought quite a sizeable portion of its catalogue.

I bought and buy games on GOG (and I buy here exclusively) because:
1) It offers mostly quality hand-picked games. A small selection, but a good one, rather than hodge-podge of everything the distributor could lay its hands on.
2) It offers a lot of old games that are usually much better than new ones (for me). And even the new Indie ones often appeal to my taste.
3) It concentrates on single-player games rather than multi-player, online and social games, which I don't play.
4) It doesn't resort to methods such as DLC and season passes to "milk" money from its clientele, but rather offers complete editions at prices I consider reasonable (I do not and will not buy any game that costs more than $10).
5) It does not require me to have a PC client to download or play my games.
6) It's nice that, since there's no DRM, I can simply copy an installer to my wife's PC when she wants to play one (assuming she ever gives up Temple Run 2...)
7) And, of course, it has the best changelog on the planet (http://www.gog.com/changelog). Well, some planet...

So, you see I had and have quite a few more reasons to buy exclusively from GOG. Hopefully, all these will also be the reasons I continue buying here.

P.S. In case it isn't obviously clear, I voted "no" on all the questions in both surveys.
Couldn't have said it better myself :)
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BadDecissions: Steam sells Knights of the Old Republic, Monkey Island, and other LucasArts games; GOG doesn't. This could be because LucasArts (Disney now, I guess) was terrified of having their decades-old games pirated, but I would guess that it has nothing to do with DRM, and is simply because Steam is a behemoth and GOG, isn't.

The bigger GOG grows, the more customers they have, the more leverage they have as a result. I would suggest that even people who are completely indifferent to newer games ought to be glad if GOG can break into that market.
What you're saying is why I buy my games almost exclusively from GOG now as, like you said, the more clout GOG has the more games we'll get DRM-free (if companies think they can sell a boatload of older games on GOG, even if that means they'll have to do it DRM-free, many of them eventually will). And....the only way for GOG to get that clout is to sell more games.

So....I figure, buying my games on GOG = GOG being more successful = GOG being able to persuade more publishers to sign up = more cool games for me :)
Post edited April 25, 2013 by Bloodygoodgames
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Bloodygoodgames: What you're saying is why I buy my games almost exclusively from GOG now as, like you said, the more clout GOG has the more games we'll get DRM-free (if companies think they can sell a boatload of older games on GOG, even if that means they'll have to do it DRM-free, many of them eventually will). And....the only way for GOG to get that clout is to sell more games.

So....I figure, buying my games on GOG = GOG being more successful = GOG being able to persuade more publishers to sign up = more cool games for me :)
So, basically, the same principle I follow except that I turn to Humble Bundles first (since I'm a Linux user) and only turn to GOG for stuff too old or too mainstream to have any reasonable hope of a DRM-free, native Linux port.

(Though, on occasion, I have bought stuff like Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams from GOG, either to run in Wine because it was just too appealing to hold out for a port, because it was part of a bundle that got me something else, or because I wanted to give the devs some extra cash after a Humble Bundle was over.)