It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussion (archive)New Gaming Options: Follow-up Survey(519 posts)(519 posts)
(519 posts)
Pages:
1
5
10
15
20
25
30
31
32
33
34
35
This is my favourite topic
Posted April 15, 2013
We (still) want to hear from you!

We recently asked you guys for feedback based on some potential games that we may be able to sign in the future. The results were pretty clear--and we will be sharing them with you all soon--but we did want to ask you a single follow-up question with an actual real-world game example. One of the games that we would like to add to our catalog is Planetary Annihilation. This is an RTS with many modern gaming features, and we figured we'd use it as our test example.

<iframe width="590" height="332" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Xpze54xgqtg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Planetary Annihilation is distinctive for the following:

- Multiplayer and skirmish focused gameplay; there is no story-based single-player campaign, but AI skirmish matches provide a great single player experience.
- Optional persistent online features such as scoreboards, social features, achievements, and the online multiplayer campaign - a persistent galaxy-wide war; an account with the developer's online service is required in order to use these features.
- No activation, unique codes, or third-party accounts are required for single-player play or, LAN/direct connection multiplayer.
- A unique key is required for Internet multiplayer, and an account with the developer's service is only required for the persistent online features.

Now, that you know about the game's specifics, here's our question:
Post edited April 15, 2013 by G-Doc
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
Decivre: Diablo II is DRM'd, but not because of the official servers. Because it requires CD-key authentication to even start playing the game.
It doesn't. You are asked for a serial during installation, but you can then copy/paste the folder elsewhere and play without problems. Did you know that there is a message that reads "The serial you are using is not for this game" in Diablo 2?
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
Decivre: That is just insane. I'm not talking about giving a copy of my game to everyone under the sun. I'm talking about installing MY game on MY two computers. Why should that be a crime?
...
I should have the right to access the multiplayer in my games, so long as I'm not distributing it illegally and I'm using the computers that I own.

We call that fair use.
avatar
FraggingBard: You're both arguing the same side, it's just in your case you think it's a question of degrees. Software piracy is when you have one license and you share that license with other people. Even if it's on your computers, whether you share it with one person or with a million people, it's piracy. You purchased a single user license, so even if you can install it on multiple computers because you own them doesn't mean other people can use those computers. Assume I'm a principle at a school and I own the facilities. If I buy a single use version of MS Office and install it on every computer and then all the school kids use it, that's piracy just as much as the guy who puts it in a torrent or you who shares it with your friends.

Single user license means just that, single user. Whether you can get around that, or if the game has no check, doesn't matter. If a murder happens in the woods, it still happened even if they don't get caught. Most GOG'ers tend to have a pitchfork handy for DRM so I doubt you'll get too much flak over it, but don't rationalise it. If you're pirating, accept what you're doing and pirate willfully. My personal opinion is that you should purchase the products because people worked hard to let you blow up planets. I will pirate music occasionally mind, my country doesn't get a whole lot that isn't in the top 40 pop charts but I don't pretend it's okay because of that. I do buy the products later on and generally splash on their limited edition vinyls, but no pretending otherwise. Just do it.
Have you and Neobr10 ever read this statement straight from GOG's own webpage (Help section for downloads and games)?

9. Can I install one game both on my laptop and desktop computer at home?

Yes. We do not limit the number of installations or reinstallations, as long as you install your purchased games on computers in your household. So yeah, if you've got a render-farm in the basement, you might actually break the world record for the number of legal Fallout installations in one household. However, if you think about installing your game on a friend's machine or sharing it with others then please don't do it, okay?
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
Decivre: Diablo II is DRM'd, but not because of the official servers. Because it requires CD-key authentication to even start playing the game.

I'm not cool with that.
I've never activated my copy of Diablo 2. Not only does single player work, but so does LAN based and direct connect games. And I've never used any tricks either, I simply only allowed Diablo 2 traffic on the local LAN (have even installed it a few times with no internet at all). No errors, no moving folders, the game simply works. Always has. There is no DRM in my retail copies (2 of them, 2 different keys, CD sets, etc).
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
FlyByU: I have already stopped buying games that require A unique key is required for Internet multiplayer here already as that was not part of GoG when it first started up
avatar
JMich: . Release date of November 25, 2008. Not to mention [url=http://www.gog.com/gamecard/sacrifice]this, which has been on GOG from the very start.
So please, check your facts.

Additionally, Planetary Annihilation does not require an account for internet play. It requires an account to use the official servers.
Ahhh I have been with Gog since it started just about and it was not a requirement when I came here it was added later. The games that I have been interested in that is.

That is because we have an account with GoG already Duh so account taken care of duh...

It all boils down to GoG.com adding DRM to the games here they want to and they have done so little by little eventually it will be like Steam here so I guess this is it for me. If a game has to have DRM of one kind or another then I buy from SecurSteam. If I have to have a key to play online I buy from steam that simple. It is much easier going with steam instead of asking for a damn key to play MP here and waiting a week to get it. Then sometimes it doesn't even work and weeks longer. So yes I have had my fill with GoG and required keys to play already.
Post edited April 18, 2013 by FlyByU
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
FlyByU: So yes I have had my fill with GoG and required keys to play already.
The key system has also been improved, since Heroes of Might and Magic V was released here. Any game released after that date that requires a key will have a key for you in your account page. So no more bothering support to get a key, you get it as soon as you buy the game.

But your call either way.
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
HypersomniacLive: Some one else said that he/she feels that GOG is desperately looking for ways to grow without upsetting the fan base too much.
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: I think that statement is pessimistic--and mind you, I'm living in Poland. :)

We are looking for ways to grow. That's incontrovertible. And we're looking for ways to grow that won't alienate the users who have gotten us here. But we're in no way "desperate'. GOG.com has been profitable, as I recall, since its very first month of operations. We add gobs of new users, new titles, and new partners each month. All of that said, limiting ourselves to just the classic games niche is a good way to forcibly limit our ability to grow. The cores that have made GOG.com great: DRM-free games, selling everything worldwide, and putting our customers first when we make business decisions; those are all things that we can do with new games and be even more profitable and more successful.

And as we grow, we continue to be able to influence other companies out there to say: hey, there's a better way to sell games than the same old. You can build relationships with gamers, instead of 'monetize audiences.' You can focus on the gamers who pay your salaries, instead of spreadsheets that dictate how you must maximize ROI. You can bring your passion for gaming, find an audience, and make something awesome.

So asking you guys how you would like to see us grow? It seems sensible enough to me. Does it mean we *must* follow what the survey results are? Well, no. We have our own view of where things should go, and we're gamers here at GOG as well (my latest addiction is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup on my Android tablet :P). You don't come to lead a business of the size and scope of GOG.com without clear vision on what it is that you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it. We did not ask you guys because we have no idea what to do, we asked because we wanted to know how you felt about it. We asked because we respect your opinions and, if we're going to do something that doesn't look like it is supported by our core community, we need to 1) go into this knowingly and 2) have damn good reasons.

Happily, what we are at for GOG.com's future and what you guys are suggesting you'd like to see in the survey results match up quite nicely. I'm working on the report we're going to share tomorrow, so I'll be spending all my free time today on getting that finished up in time to post it by the Friday deadline. :)
Wow, thanks for saying that, TET :)

I never told it openly, but I respect the way you all treat us here - just this scope and immediate interaction with GOG staff, ability to talk directly to people who are running this site is something I feel is missing in gaming world in general (only one I can think of is Brian Fargo and his InXile Entertainment, but they have started to behave like that only after Kickstarter enabled them to do so) - that´s why you are so unique to me.

Reason why I´m telling that is that I like you´ve been honest to us and told us openly that GOG doesn´t have to follow our expectations on how GOG should expand, yet it will anyway.
And I´m glad they match up with ours quite nicely.

To put it simply - just thank you :)
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
hucklebarry: I've never activated my copy of Diablo 2. Not only does single player work, but so does LAN based and direct connect games. And I've never used any tricks either, I simply only allowed Diablo 2 traffic on the local LAN (have even installed it a few times with no internet at all). No errors, no moving folders, the game simply works. Always has. There is no DRM in my retail copies (2 of them, 2 different keys, CD sets, etc).
Well, the ability to copy the folder was added during the 1.13 patch. But I guess you're right. Still, the CD-key authentication is very annoying, especially if you're the sort who loses your CD cases. I would have even considered it DRM on game Sacrifice, though GoG's version comes with a pre-built CD-key, so I'm okay with it.

So I still dislike it to a colossal degree.
avatar
Luned: Have you and Neobr10 ever read this statement straight from GOG's own webpage (Help section for downloads and games)?

9. Can I install one game both on my laptop and desktop computer at home?

Yes. We do not limit the number of installations or reinstallations, as long as you install your purchased games on computers in your household. So yeah, if you've got a render-farm in the basement, you might actually break the world record for the number of legal Fallout installations in one household. However, if you think about installing your game on a friend's machine or sharing it with others then please don't do it, okay?
THANK YOU!!!
Post edited April 18, 2013 by Decivre
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
Decivre: Well, the ability to copy the folder was added during the 1.13 patch. But I guess you're right. Still, the CD-key authentication is very annoying, especially if you're the sort who loses your CD cases. I would have even considered it DRM on game Sacrifice, though GoG's version comes with a pre-built CD-key, so I'm okay with it.

So I still dislike it to a colossal degree.
Hmm... I started playing D2 before 1.10 (way before, I'm thinking like 1.04 or somewhere thereabouts). I think it helps to know that the CD key does not authenticate online. It only works like a checksum against the game files. If the key matches what the local game expects, it works. The only thing I can think of is that buying it digitally might be an issue? My purchase was from a retail store (boxed copy). I passionately disagree that a local CD key is any form of DRM. It might be copy protection, but it does NOT manage your rights as I can install that 1 billion times over and play from anywhere as long as I enter the key correctly. DRM, by definition of the acronym, has to do more than LOCAL verification.

As for losing the key, Since my very first PC game with a CD key I wrote them down in a book I keep near my PC. It does not matter what game I want to play, I just open the book and type in the code. Even better is to do this electronically. Keep it in a Word doc and just copy/paste (but I kept losing that file in formatting/crashes, so I started writing it down physically ;)

You are certainly free to whatever lines you need to draw for yourself, I'm just offering my view. If it were up to me, we wouldn't have CD keys either, but when the key doesn't need the internet and doesn't leave my local PC... I can't complain personally. I can still install, play, backup, and do anything I want when I want... which is what DRM prevents.
Posted April 18, 2013

Diablo II is DRM'd, but not because of the official servers. Because it requires CD-key authentication to even start playing the game.

I'm not cool with that.
IIRC if you get a digital installer from Blizzard the CD-key is actually imbedded directly into your installer executable. In effect, the key has been fused to the lock and it's only relevent when logging into the multiplayer services. If you're going to have CD-keys, this is the ideal way to handle them.

While I'll vehemently oppose any restriction that would prevent me from installing my games, I'm okay with a unique key for accessing additional services. If you're going to do it, though, you should do it in a respectful and user-friendly manner. Having a unique serial key embedded into your installer is a good solution for everyone in that respect. The legitimate customer owns his copy without qualifications, and the publisher/developer gets some safeguard against pirates using their servers.

It's not a perfect system, but this isn't a perfect world. The important thing is that it's a legitimate attempt at fairness and balance. For that reason, I'm supportive of this model.


I also reject the slippery slope argument. While it's true that positions can change for the worse, they can also change for the good. By presenting and defending this model as a balanced and workable one, we may encourage other developers and publishers to adopt more flexible policies.
Post edited April 18, 2013 by Darvin
Posted April 18, 2013
You know, you CAN have a profitable business and just stick to what you do best. You might not be able to hire new folks, become giant and go public, but what's wrong with having a niche and sticking with it? Others do other things better than you. Don't try to do those things and have it take away from what you do best.

"Limiting your growth"? Yeah, because you're really running out of old games to port. I mean, I think you have them all already.

Reading some of the above posts, I seem to be in the minority, and that's cool. I'm not crazy opposed to the indie / new games. It just feels like there were a lot more old games released and put on sale when the focus was on them and the reason the site succeeded in the first place. Other competitors are already emerging that are focusing on old games. I just don't want to see gog pull a Netflix and expand for the sake of expanding and ruining themselves. There's nothing worse than getting too many MBA's together telling you to GROW GROW GROW!
Post edited April 18, 2013 by twaitsfan
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: So asking you guys how you would like to see us grow?
I think something you need to understand is that your established customers don't necessarily care if you grow. The people who have been here so far likely come here for re-releases of old games and go elsewhere for other stuff. Your search for even greater profitability is largely irrelevant to your consumers.
Posted April 18, 2013
Wow @StingingVelvet - that is so spot on.
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
StingingVelvet: I think something you need to understand is that your established customers don't necessarily care if you grow. The people who have been here so far likely come here for re-releases of old games and go elsewhere for other stuff. Your search for even greater profitability is largely irrelevant to your consumers.
That's ludicrous; who would ever buy game X from steam or origin when the same game is available on gog DRM free, non-region locked, and typically for less money with extras that one would have to pay for on the former? Expanding into movie or music distribution would be one thing, but who would ever be against a larger game catalogue (so long as it doesn't violate any of their core tenets)?
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
Tarhiel: snip
I like you´ve been honest to us and told us openly that GOG doesn´t have to follow our expectations on how GOG should expand, yet it will anyway.
snip
I don't think that TET said they're going to do exactly what we tell them to - unless it's an absolute "no go" maybe. This part
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: snip
We did not ask you guys because we have no idea what to do, we asked because we wanted to know how you felt about it. We asked because we respect your opinions and, if we're going to do something that doesn't look like it is supported by our core community, we need to 1) go into this knowingly and 2) have damn good reasons.

Happily, what we are at for GOG.com's future and what you guys are suggesting you'd like to see in the survey results match up quite nicely.
snip
tells me that the survey presented the directions they're considering/ planning to take and our feedback shows how much support they have in doing so.
It looks like there is a certain degree of agreement/ support and I think tomorrow's report will elaborate on how their plans make sense for GOG.com (company and customers) and maybe what (if any) adjustements are considered based on our comments.

Anyway, the wait is over, we'll know tomorrow.

avatar
TheEnigmaticT: So asking you guys how you would like to see us grow?
avatar
StingingVelvet: I think something you need to understand is that your established customers don't necessarily care if you grow. The people who have been here so far likely come here for re-releases of old games and go elsewhere for other stuff. Your search for even greater profitability is largely irrelevant to your consumers.
How can one even expect that GOG.com will be around re-releasing more and more old games without them growing?
Isn't it self-explanatory that If they don't grow/ be more profitable the resources of securing more (old) games will be limited, i.e. they'll have no reason maintaining this business?
It could be just me, but I don't think that anyone starts a business with a long-term goal of just staying afloat.
Posted April 18, 2013
avatar
TheEnigmaticT: So asking you guys how you would like to see us grow?
avatar
StingingVelvet: I think something you need to understand is that your established customers don't necessarily care if you grow. The people who have been here so far likely come here for re-releases of old games and go elsewhere for other stuff. Your search for even greater profitability is largely irrelevant to your consumers.
This is true. I think the key thing is whatever growth you achieve doesn't inhibit your service to your current customers in any way. Even if your growth involves selling GOG Cola and having Happy Meal toys of each of the GOG team, I don't mind at all as long as you don't stop or reduce what you're already doing. I understand the need for growth since, eventually, you'll be all out of old games to sell, especially when even games like Halo: Combat Evolved (now 12 years old) are still regarded as relatively new by retro gamers.

That said, I think elements like smartphone apps - like a remote GOG Downloader that we can use to check for updates and trigger the download if our PC is on at home - and integration of the wishlists into social media, or even just being visible to other users on this site, would be a good way to gain more visibility and reach out to new customers.

avatar
TheSpartan: That's ludicrous; who would ever buy game X from steam or origin when the same game is available on gog DRM free, non-region locked, and typically for less money with extras that one would have to pay for on the former? Expanding into movie or music distribution would be one thing, but who would ever be against a larger game catalogue (so long as it doesn't violate any of their core tenets)?
First of all, you've totally missed his point. He's saying that the typical current user is here for old games, thus any kind of expansion beyond that would typically involve other users that haven't already been attracted by what GOG currently offers. "Growth" to most GOG users just means more old games, which goes without saying as a suggestion.

Second of all, you significantly over-estimate how much the average person cares about DRM. Personally, even I - a GOG user of several years - don't really care about it that much, as long as it doesn't repeatedly ruin my gaming experience, such as GFWL. Elements like Cloud saves, easy matchmaking and game groups make Steam much more useful to me than a game simply having no DRM. I could go to any PC in the world and carry on playing Bioshock Infinite from my current point; doing the same with a GOG game would involve having to start from scratch. Like it or not, people like achievements and leaderboards, they like autopatching, they like chatting with friends and easily being able to invite them into a game they're playing. Unless GOG copies Steam wholesale, they will not persuade the majority of people to use GOG over Steam, even assuming they had the same catalogue.
Post edited April 18, 2013 by Export
Pages:
1
5
10
15
20
25
30
31
32
33
34
35
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)New Gaming Options: Follow-up Survey(519 posts)(519 posts)
(519 posts)