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bazilisek: Oh, look, an ad hominem.
Very funny you should complain about that. Like you talking about "GOG Luddites", or SimonG's "Lead of the GOG Hammer legion"? Pot, kettle, black much?

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timppu: Do you feel the same if Steam tried to get rights to sell the recent Final Fantasy 7 re-release? After all, it is already easily available also on another digital store, so why don't all the moaning Steam users just get it there then?
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bazilisek: How is this even relevant? Why are you dragging this into it? Stick to the matter at hand, why don't you?
That is very relevant, because it is quite an analogous situation to "GOG selling games that are already available elsewhere". So, FF7PC is already being sold in a digital store, yet some people complain because it is not sold in Steam, and without the DRM they personally don't like in the current digital store.

What was it that the OP was asking about again?

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timppu: If the "games that others can't, or don't want, to sell"-market is such a goldmine as you suggest, why then has GOG decided to extend beyond that market?
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bazilisek: Where am I suggesting that, pray tell? That's right: nowhere. I understand GOG's decision well enough, thank you very much. That still doesn't explain the absolutely bizarre "If there are reasons why other digital stores don't want, or can't, carry them, I would think those very same reasons apply also to GOG" (again, your words).
Occam's razor. Look it up.

How is my reasoning bizarre? So do you think the same reasons that make many games either non-lucrative or hard to release for other digital stores, don't somehow apply to GOG? I think GOG has already stated there is no big pile of games they are sitting on, just waiting to be released on GOG.

There must be a reason why GOG also declined to release UnEpic. I'd presume most probably the reasons are similar to why e.g. Steam decided the same before. Just like I said: "If there are reasons why other digital stores don't want, or can't, carry them, I would think those very same reasons apply also to GOG".
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timppu: Very funny you should complain about that. Like you talking about "GOG Luddites"
There is quite a difference between me saying there are unspecified Luddites on this forum (in a completely different thread to boot) and you directly calling me a moaner to belittle my argument. For your information, only the latter case is covered under "ad hominem".
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timppu: That is very relevant, because it is quite an analogous situation to "GOG selling games that are already available elsewhere". So, FF7PC is already being sold in a digital store, yet some people complain because it is not sold in Steam, and without the DRM they personally don't like in the current digital store.

What was it that the OP was asking about again?
It was not relevant to the question I was asking you. Still isn't.
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timppu: Occam's razor. Look it up.
I know what Occam's razor is very well. I do not see how it applies here, I really don't.
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timppu: How is my reasoning bizarre? So do you think the same reasons that make many games either non-lucrative or hard to release for other digital stores, don't somehow apply to GOG?
They do apply, of course. But once again, overcoming obstacles that others were unwilling to overcome is precisely what GOG's entire business was about, and it demonstrably worked very well. So yeah, definitely bizarre.
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timppu: I think GOG has already stated there is no big pile of games they are sitting on, just waiting to be released on GOG.
Again, how is this relevant? You can't change your arguments in the middle of a discussion, no matter how hard you try.
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timppu: There must be a reason why GOG also declined to release UnEpic. I'd presume most probably the reasons are similar to why e.g. Steam decided the same before. Just like I said: "If there are reasons why other digital stores don't want, or can't, carry them, I would think those very same reasons apply also to GOG".
This whole thing started with you talking about, and I quote, "games that are harder to get (ie. not available elsewhere)". So please don't drag UnEpic into it as well, you are only muddying the waters more and more.
Post edited August 25, 2012 by bazilisek
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timppu: So let's start with the most obvious ones. Can e.g. the Steam versions of all the Alan Wake games and The Chronicles of Riddick be run fully DRM-free with the method you described?
I'm downloading Alan Wake from Steam now to try, though it's a big file so going to be quite a while to find out ;)
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MonstaMunch: I'd still be very interested to know if anyone else has any info about this. If all GOG's that can be purchased on Steam can also be copied and run outside of the client, to me (though I realize not to everyone) that's as good as DRM Free.
Run outside the client is not enough, the real question is can they be run after being copied to a different computer on which Steam was never installed and which is not connected to the Internet. There are plenty of games that will run without Steam client but will refuse to run one a different computer (most of them being the one with third party DRM ala Securom or Starforce.)

There are some Steam games that can be considered as DRM-free-ish, mostly the dosbox using ones and some Indies.
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MonstaMunch: I'd still be very interested to know if anyone else has any info about this. If all GOG's that can be purchased on Steam can also be copied and run outside of the client, to me (though I realize not to everyone) that's as good as DRM Free.
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Gersen: Run outside the client is not enough, the real question is can they be run after being copied to a different computer on which Steam was never installed and which is not connected to the Internet. There are plenty of games that will run without Steam client but will refuse to run one a different computer (most of them being the one with third party DRM ala Securom or Starforce.)

There are some Steam games that can be considered as DRM-free-ish, mostly the dosbox using ones and some Indies.
The games I mentioned previously did exactly that. I was able to copy them from my main computer to a work laptop which never had Steam installed, and they worked fine. Alan Wake is taking forever to download, guess it won't be done until tomorrow.
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MonstaMunch: The games I mentioned previously did exactly that. I was able to copy them from my main computer to a work laptop which never had Steam installed, and they worked fine. Alan Wake is taking forever to download, guess it won't be done until tomorrow.
If Alan Wake is steamworks then it won't run outside of steam. I got a chuckle reading the manual of the gog version when it said you need to install steam to activate and run your game. I assume it was just a scanned version of the retail manual, so most likely it is steamworks and won't run without steam. Only the GOG version can do that.
Guys, just use your favorite digital stores and don't try to force others to use the same one. It's not Soviet Russia - everyone can use whatever they want to, so stop convincing them that they are wrong.
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Syphonides: I have nothing against either service, and I understand some people might want a DRM free copy of the games they like, but the thing that eludes me is the following:

Why do people want games to be put on here that are also available on Steam? Instead of giving us another choice where to get it, why don't people focus on games that are harder to get? We all know Steam is more for new games, so why don't we try to make GOG really for the old games?
Because GOG has proven we can have both new and old games, DRM free. I can have my cake and eat it too!
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MonstaMunch: The games I mentioned previously did exactly that. I was able to copy them from my main computer to a work laptop which never had Steam installed, and they worked fine. Alan Wake is taking forever to download, guess it won't be done until tomorrow.
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Fictionvision: If Alan Wake is steamworks then it won't run outside of steam. I got a chuckle reading the manual of the gog version when it said you need to install steam to activate and run your game. I assume it was just a scanned version of the retail manual, so most likely it is steamworks and won't run without steam. Only the GOG version can do that.
I can confirm this. I can also confirm downloading it was a waste of $10 worth of data allowance, as playing it for less than 4 minutes made me as sick as a first person game. :(
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Syphonides: I have nothing against either service, and I understand some people might want a DRM free copy of the games they like, but the thing that eludes me is the following:

Why do people want games to be put on here that are also available on Steam? Instead of giving us another choice where to get it, why don't people focus on games that are harder to get? We all know Steam is more for new games, so why don't we try to make GOG really for the old games?
One word, really.
Extras.

Steam hardly ever gives you extras or proper support. GOG is more valuable as a service.
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Weclock: One word, really.
Extras.

Steam hardly ever gives you extras or proper support. GOG is more valuable as a service.
Uff, can't say there's been an extra yet that made a purchase seem like more value for me so far, but then I generally don't care about things like that. I can see how others would though. But for me, if it's not in the game, it doesn't add value.
I'm amazed this subject hasn't come up before to be honest.
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Weclock: One word, really.
Extras.

Steam hardly ever gives you extras or proper support. GOG is more valuable as a service.
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Pheace: Uff, can't say there's been an extra yet that made a purchase seem like more value for me so far, but then I generally don't care about things like that. I can see how others would though. But for me, if it's not in the game, it doesn't add value.
It's been the decision making factor for almost every game I've bought that happens to be on both services.

I know this is more about newer indie games, but there's no way I would buy FO1&2 on Steam knowing about all the extras and the lower price available on GOG.
Sometimes my internet connection crashes and i can't login to my steam account and play games. But i can play gog.com versions of games anytime i want.
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Syphonides: ... Why do people want games to be put on here that are also available on Steam? Instead of giving us another choice where to get it, why don't people focus on games that are harder to get?...
I guess the answer is that the one thing you mentioned has not much to do with the other thing. Bringing games here that are also on Steam doesn't make it harder to obtain games that are old or rare or whatever... but it increases the profit of GOG and therefore gives them more power to achieve whatever their goal is. And for us customers it increases the available choices, so it's a good thing for all involved.

It's not really in our interest to have only one source for each product. Healthy competition, I would say.