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I didn't care much for FO3, as it had very little of the first two games' charm. It mostly felt like a series of boring dungeons that looked the same. New Vegas was much better and more varied.

But I did get that fallouty feeling once in FO3. It was a minor quest that involved helping the small population of Bigtown (basically teens with no real skills) survive the attack of Super Mutants. Depending on my skills, I could teach them to shoot, set up a minefield, ambush their enemies, lob grenades at them or repair a rusty old robot to defend them. And then participate in the defense. The quest summed up what Fallout was for me: survival in a post-apocalyptic world with limited resources.
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xy2345: What I disliked the most about Fallout 3 was the level cap. After playing Operation Anchorage and the main story I had already reached level 30 and then there still were Broken Steel, The Pitt, Point Lookout and Mothership Zeta to play. So I still had lots of hours of game play ahead of me without any character development in it. How can that be good for an RPG? The character was pretty much maxed out but now the game was more or less a mediocre FPS with Vats.
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doccarnby: I played through all the DLC one after another (barring Broken Steel, of course), like I did in New Vegas. My problem was the level scaling. I got to Vault 87 (the one past Little Lamplight) and the entire fucking thing was filled to the brim with Super Mutant Overlords, just because I was at level 25 or whatever. They were a fucking pain in the ass, it would take forever to take one down, with a good possibility that I would die if they had a Tri-Beam Laser, so I had to hope that my Gauss Rifle would keep on getting criticals and knocking them down to minimise the damage I took, and if there were two of them? Dead. Bethesda does a lot of things right, but level scaling is not one of them.
It was that level scaling problem that forced me into playing Operation Anchorage quite "early" because I was encountering Mutant Overlords and Ghoul Reavers and Albino Scorpions galore and I really needed that winterized T-51b Power Armor to make those encounters less painful.
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StingingVelvet: I love both games. Fallout 3 has much better exploration and level design.
Agreed. For exploration, Fallout 3 was a lot better. The world and its characters seemed like they couldn't make up their collective mind about whether the bombs dropped 20 years ago or 2 weeks ago* but the world itself was well crafted and I enjoyed exploring it for the sake of exploring it.

With Fallout New Vegas I explored it because it was required to move the brilliantly crafted story forward.

* By no estimation did they drop 200 years ago.
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Siannah: You can play it that way, but then it sure doesn't look like you're interested to find out anything in the first place. And I plain don't see what NV did better in that department.
I explored every nook and cranny in FO 3 and read all the computer entries I came across. I just didn't find anything that I thought was particularly interesting, surprising or memorable. In NV, the story behind Vault 11 alone had me hooked from start to finish. It was like playing through a really nasty sci-fi short story, and I really had to take a break and think about all that for a minute before I continued playing. The same went for the story behind the Sierra Madre, Big Mountain or the diaries of the Father in the Cave. There are more examplesm for that, and I can safely say that NV as a whole really has stayed with me. Fallout 3 has not.
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Siannah: Not really. No matter what approach you take, which side you join / ignore / slaughter, you're still the courier tasked to get that chip back because that voice said so.
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Daynov: As far as actual background goes, yes you could be anyone. Sure you're a courier, but that's it. There are numerous ways to explain character drive and choice making, all while staying in character.
There are always numerous ways to explain character drive / choice making and background, even in F3 as this is done in the players head.
My problem with NV remains, that you can actually go and kill each and everybody as soon as they appear in your world, the courier / chip story STILL continues no matter what. If this is considered quality choice / consequences done right, I'll pass.

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Daynov: Pretty much. The whole Megaton thingy was advertised as one of the most important choices you make during the game prior to release. Decide to blow the bomb - your actions echo through the Wasteland, amiright ? Nope, 2 (?) people in the whole game notice / talk about it.
In NV you step into the Lucky 38, a feat no one did for 200 years or so. The first time you leave, you hear ONCE a few NPCs (5 or so) talking about that fact. Nobody ever will mention it anymore after that point.
I haven't tested it (always wanted to) but I'd take bets the ranger girl in the Mojave Outpost would still send you to investigate the smoke coming from Nipton, even if you slaughtered everybody in Goodsprings and Primm - it doesn't get mentioned.

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Siannah: Exploring a 20+ zones devastated city with underground metro tunnels as the icing on the cake vs. a intact New Vegas which basically consists of a few casinos in one zone and a few slum-like alleys in the other one?
One is explorers heaven, the other a walk through the park.
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doccarnby: Except that DC was like, a quarter of the map that you were really pushed to explore, while New Vegas was a small spot in the centre of the map where you could go and put your feet up for a bit, or at least that's how it felt to me.
Ermm... nope? You probably wanted to get to Rivet City which was fairly easy even for a lvl 5 char. The main quest put you into DC with the whole Galaxy News Radio part. Everything else about it was pretty much optional as far as I remember.

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Nergal01: snip
I really ain't going to put up examples of side stories in F3 that stood out for me. They didn't stick with you, they did for me where the NV ones didn't. And so I still have F3 installed, but not NV.
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Siannah: Ermm... nope? You probably wanted to get to Rivet City which was fairly easy even for a lvl 5 char. The main quest put you into DC with the whole Galaxy News Radio part. Everything else about it was pretty much optional as far as I remember.
Maybe it was because of the metro system that all looked the same. I got turned around all the time and escaping DC was a great experience for me. Any time I had to go into DC, once I got to GNR, and the Museum of History and Technology, I just fast-travelled because anything else was unacceptable. Exploring the rest of the map was just fine, really, it as just DC that was a problem.

As I said, I'm complaining about it, but I do think it was a good game, I just wish I'd played it before NV.
My random post here:
I just finished F3 about a day ago. It blew my mind. It was awesome. And that guy who wrote exploration is boring, HELL. It was the reason I started playing and it ruled. Even if buildings and dungeons are modularly built and look alike, they all have some unique stuff in them, something that makes me say "hehe, cool" every time. I absolutely loved exploring the capital wasteland. Now, F3 is the only Fallout game I played so far, but seeing how much I liked it, NV got to the top of my 'to buy' list. Will see how it is in a few months...
Post edited September 06, 2012 by Malleus
If you like exploration, there's a mod that opens up a load of the DC building interiors.
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Siannah: There are always numerous ways to explain character drive / choice making and background, even in F3 as this is done in the players head.
That's fine, but IMO NV is more flexible in that regard. My character is more of a blank slate there, and I'm not burdened down with backstory (like in Fo 3....) I frankly do not want, Lonesome Road being the obvious exception, and even that is debatable. Besides, in my experience, NV gives you a lot more actual feedback, concerning both your in-game choices and your skill choices.

My problem with NV remains, that you can actually go and kill each and everybody as soon as they appear in your world, the courier / chip story STILL continues no matter what. If this is considered quality choice / consequences done right, I'll pass.
To be frank, NV's main story line is pretty simple when you get right down to it. But that is, IMO, an advantage, as this simplicity can accomodate for all kinds of scenarios that you create in-game and you still do not end up breaking the whole thing because the developers accounted for a lot of possible scenarios. I really enjoyed that flexibility.

An example: In Honest Hearts, I accidentally shot a plot-critical character, meaning I antagonized the faction you're supposed to ally with if you follow the questline properly. It was a mistake on my part. This would usually mean that you ruined the whole thing and normally you'd be forced to try again. Still, I kept playing just to see what would happen. And what do you know, the developers even took that possibility of accidentally antagonizing your potential allies into account and even created an ending for it. It's a "bad" ending, to be sure, but it's still valid. I really felt like the game respects my choices, even if they completely go against what the developers probably had in mind.
Post edited September 06, 2012 by Nergal01
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xy2345: What I disliked the most about Fallout 3 was the level cap. After playing Operation Anchorage and the main story I had already reached level 30 and then there still were Broken Steel, The Pitt, Point Lookout and Mothership Zeta to play. So I still had lots of hours of game play ahead of me without any character development in it. How can that be good for an RPG? The character was pretty much maxed out but now the game was more or less a mediocre FPS with Vats.
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Siannah: I can do the same with F:NV, Skyrim, every Bethesda game. Heck, I can do that with every open world game. Not sure what your point is here.
Well, my point is that character development is an important part of any RPG that is supposed to keep the player occupied for many hours. Hence the whole distribution of XP in RPGs. If New Vegas and Skyrim have the same problem then that makes them bad RPGs as well. I wouldn't know, I never played them (much). But I played Morrowind till I reached level 65 so I didn't have that problem here.

I quit playing Morrowind eventually because the storytelling was substandard. Sure there was a lot "to do" but all those quests seemed alike and uninteresting and couldn't reach me on an emotional level. So the compelling telling of an interesting story is another important part of RPGs and open world RPGs seem to usually fall behind on that matter.

The only thing that keeps the player going in a game like Fallout 3 is the exploration of the world, which isn't quite enough to call it a good RPG.