What if Jonathon Blow tells you that most games suck, will you believe him even if you might not understand his argument? Look, you can refuse to even understand or acknowledge the argument all you want. It's about as convincing as people who insisted that Windows 95 was the ultimate desktop interface but whatever. It has nothing to do with telling you what you like, it's telling you that you're human and you're bad at both identifying what you like and not lying to yourself. It's a human trait and it takes a long fucking time working in one small area to overcome it. That's why after the advent of film schools we started getting people like Martin Scorsese by the dozen (or at least half dozen), sometimes you can codify this stuff. Games will get there.

You mod stuff works both ways incidentally, I'd rather have a great game with actual great mechanics, then if you want to mod it to play an inventory tetris minigame, or any other feature that doesn't add much to the core experience for the majority of players, you can.

Actually I did acknowledge that current inventory solution is wrong and broken, however if I had to pick between broken and none at all, I would pick broken. I really, really, really do like resource management, and in open world RPGs, this can only be achieved trough limited inventory (or limiting player - again, if I have to pick between being limited myself and limiting inventory, I would pick limited inventory.) Yes, it will eventually evolve. I very much look forward to that day. But I don't want it removed completely, and it's not some form of nostalgia or inability to adapt, it's me genuinely liking resource management in my immersive RPGs.

And you're wrong with mods working both ways - removing carry limit usually means changing a single number in a single file, so it can be done even in games that aren't open to modding. Adding encumbrance and all mechanics that need to be added with it also need a very modifiable game.

Some games get it right, like for example World of Warcraft, while other games like Ultima 6 is a total nightmare. +1 on the thread.

As long as the players don't abuse it, you are right.

But when players start abusing it, many DMs need some mechanics to sort out the dispute (ie, "Ok, I can't carry 20 dead bodies, so how many dead bodies can I carry before you give me a penalty?").

After all, not all DMs are programmers, mathematicians or engineers.

Some will probably be more hard-pressed to come up with on-the-spot policy to resolve the problem, hence the encumbrance rules.

As they wrote in the books (in the 2nd edition anyways), the encumbrance by weight mechanics doesn't need to be religiously applied and some will want to apply it only when the players are being abusive.

Yes. While there is a strong correlation between realism and how enjoyable a game is, it isn't quite causality.

You need to sort out which parts of reality a player will care about and which parts will just be getting in the way.

I remember that. Interesting is quite the understatement. :)

Yeah, I think IIRC when I began my thread I believed most would disagree with me. And that's fine. It doesn't suddenly make me like the system just because it's popular.

It makes a game like work. A chore. While playing, I have to make five trips back and forth from some destination just for the IMS system. No other reason for the trips. That's it. Only reason.

And those trips aren't FUN. Instead of making those 5 trips back and forth for no other reason than IMS, I could be exploring a new area, battling new enemies, or doing things that are FUN. And when you consider this happens at every new area you come to, you're talking about a huge and significant part of the gaming experience being nothing but a UPS carrier, back and forth, back and forth carrying stuff (no disrespect to UPS carriers intended).

So, yeah, I know it's not popular. And that's fine. But I still don't understand the realism argument in a game that you can shoot another person in the face three times and theyre still shooting back at you.

ADDED IN EDIT: I wish they would make this an option in games. For those that want that added "realism" they toggle it on, for those that don't like it, they toggle it off.

Or something like the compromise I mentioned in my post above. Though that would need some work and thinking I think it could be made to give the best of both worlds. Realistic limitations on what you can carry for use, while getting rid of most of the trips back and forth.

Well, no offence, but if you actually do play games with limited inventory like that, you're doing something horribly wrong and are one of those people that should grab mod for unlimited inventory on their first opportunity :D Also, I'm not usually the kind of person to hide behind majority, but my resource management argument (which makes the game more realistic - not the fact that you can carry 200 lbs, mind you) still goes strong without anyone actually managing to disprove it by anything else than 'you're wrong' and 'I don't like it'

Heh, having said all I've said, you'll never believe what I'm going to attempt next.

Fallout NV. On HARDCORE mode.

LOL, no, I won't like the back and forth trips solely for IMS any better and wish that weren't part of it, but I do like the other aspects of Hardcore mode. (Requiring sleep, food, and water). So, I'll give it a go. If I turn it off, it will be because of the IMS, no other reason, since with bullets and stimpacks having weight I'll now have to make 8 trips instead of 5. (BTW, those are exaggerations, sorry. But I have made three trips back and forth from one location before in Fallout 3. Solely for IMS purposes.

What I usually do is fast travel back and forth for IMS trips. And then when done in that area, I walk back or to the next area in real time, since IMO fast trip is another "unrealistic" thing but adds in this case a way that lessens the impact of the IMS. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that's why they added it. Knowing there's going to be trips made solely due to the IMS.


And for the record, GOTHIC 1 and GOTHIC 2 were absolutely GREAT games.

And I've seen lots of people agree with that.

And neither had any limitations whatsoever. You could carry all you wanted.

But... But... Why would you be doing that? I have always geared up, explored a complete location or more of them, and then returned, and I don't even use fast travel. 99% of items you encounter are not worth picking up, so I was swimming in money fairly soon anyway. There's no need to pick up anything even remotely interesting! And I'm not saying I hate games without inventory management, I'm saying that I prefer it in games where survival is vital in some form (TES, Fallout.) For example, I could live pretty easily without weight limit in The Witcher 2 (I'm not bothered by it either, no way in hell I'm navigating limitless inventory in that game)

Oh by the way, in new vegas, open console and write player.modav carryweight 5000

you won't have to worry anymore :-P