It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
keeveek: They screw us. In normal relations - you buy it , you do whatever the hell you want with that, especially borrow or give to your friend.

You are lucky enough to have all the money you need for your games. Here, avg salary is 700 EUR / month.

I am happy when I can get / give a key for a game from / to someone, even if it's just part of a bundle.
As I said in the post you probably didn't read yet. Piracy is fair game, it is the service that shouldn't be taken advantage of. It might only be a few pennies, but those are running costs. And they can add up.

Also, the "first sale doctrine"or their national "counterparts" are an exception from the norm that was necessary due to the physicality of books and records. The "one license per person" the internet made possible is actually closer "to the norm" than the old retail boxes. You don't have to like it, but if you need to rationalize your behaviour, you have to take other examples.
avatar
i666an: errm i feel bad enough now sigh. I have learnt my lesson, and hope the community will not think too badly of me.
Personal moral opinion: If a game (either from a bundle or from another place) comes in multiple platforms and you use at least one of those, you shouldn't allow others to redeem it to another platform. Examples are the bundles which come with drm-free and steam redeemable copies (if you use the drm-free, do not give the steam key to someone else), bundles that come with keys to 2 or more platforms (if you use the desura key, do not give the steam key to someone else), games that are redeemable to their parent companies DD (EA games that come with steam and origin options, don't use the origin one and gift the steam one), games that come on drm-free on physical media with steam redeemable codes (I'm looking at you LoG). The only exception I know so far is with "The Witcher", assuming you had bought 2+ copies of it, thus when you try to redeem it on GOG.com for your digital backup you get the message that you already have it. TET has given the ok to share that code, but only if you already have The Witcher on GOG.com.
As for splitting bundle keys, consult their FAQ. Humble Bundle and Indie Royale specifically state that you should gift a bundle, and not give the key, while for Indie Gala and Groupees Be Mine bundles, I think they have said that they don't mind, as long as you already own the game, but I can't find an FAQ on their site.
So, tl;dr version, if you use any version of the game for yourself, you shouldn't give the other versions of it away. If you do not use any version, then you might give them away, but only to 1 person, and it also depends on the bundle on whether that is "acceptable" or not.
Apologies for the long post, and I think our resident "legal representative" will correct me soon enough on any mistakes I may have made.
avatar
i666an: errm i feel bad enough now sigh. I have learnt my lesson, and hope the community will not think too badly of me.
avatar
JMich: Personal moral opinion: If a game (either from a bundle or from another place) comes in multiple platforms and you use at least one of those, you shouldn't allow others to redeem it to another platform. Examples are the bundles which come with drm-free and steam redeemable copies (if you use the drm-free, do not give the steam key to someone else), bundles that come with keys to 2 or more platforms (if you use the desura key, do not give the steam key to someone else), games that are redeemable to their parent companies DD (EA games that come with steam and origin options, don't use the origin one and gift the steam one), games that come on drm-free on physical media with steam redeemable codes (I'm looking at you LoG). The only exception I know so far is with "The Witcher", assuming you had bought 2+ copies of it, thus when you try to redeem it on GOG.com for your digital backup you get the message that you already have it. TET has given the ok to share that code, but only if you already have The Witcher on GOG.com.
As for splitting bundle keys, consult their FAQ. Humble Bundle and Indie Royale specifically state that you should gift a bundle, and not give the key, while for Indie Gala and Groupees Be Mine bundles, I think they have said that they don't mind, as long as you already own the game, but I can't find an FAQ on their site.
So, tl;dr version, if you use any version of the game for yourself, you shouldn't give the other versions of it away. If you do not use any version, then you might give them away, but only to 1 person, and it also depends on the bundle on whether that is "acceptable" or not.
Apologies for the long post, and I think our resident "legal representative" will correct me soon enough on any mistakes I may have made.
/thread
I wonder why they don't group their Steam keys as well, like Humble does. Surely it would reduce the "spare key" trading (assuming they want to avoid that). Also, redeeming multiple keys is quite a slow process on Steam - a single key would be much better.
avatar
Barefoot_Monkey: I wonder why they don't group their Steam keys as well, like Humble does. Surely it would reduce the "spare key" trading (assuming they want to avoid that). Also, redeeming multiple keys is quite a slow process on Steam - a single key would be much better.
I'm guessing it's because they don't have any kind of relationship with Steam... I think for the IndieRoyale bundles, the developers just give Desura the keys themselves. For the Humble Bundles Valve or Humble Inc. (not really sure which) add a 'new product' to the Steam registry and generate keys for that. I guess Humble Inc. counts as a publisher or something as far as Valve is concerned, I'm not really sure.

I would prefer a single key too.
Post edited June 30, 2012 by SirPrimalform
avatar
i666an: ok so i really miffed !!!

I bought the indie bundle to give away and because i have never used this errrr client, i clicked on redeem on 1 of the games - i know have all the games in my client ......

Is there a way to see the keys - so i can give them away ?

Sadly this will be the 1st and last indie bundle i buy, i will get other stuff to giveaway.
avatar
SirPrimalform: To be honest... you shouldn't really be splitting the bundles up when they come with keys for multiple clients and DRM-free downloads. You're supposed to buy the bundle as a gift if you want to gift it. You're annoyed about not being able to do something you're not supposed to do.
There's never been any complaints from any of the bundle folks about this. If I buy a game I already own in a bundle I'm happy to pass a free Steam key along. If you know of any people running bundles who've asked us not to do so, I'd like to know about it.

As for the OP's problem, I thought it was well known Desura keys were "one key to rule them all", i.e. a single key redeems the whole bundle.
Post edited June 30, 2012 by orcishgamer
avatar
SirPrimalform: To be honest... you shouldn't really be splitting the bundles up when they come with keys for multiple clients and DRM-free downloads. You're supposed to buy the bundle as a gift if you want to gift it. You're annoyed about not being able to do something you're not supposed to do.
avatar
orcishgamer: There's never been any complaints from any of the bundle folks about this. If I buy a game I already own in a bundle I'm happy to pass a free Steam key along. If you know of any people running bundles who've asked us not to do so, I'd like to know about it.

As for the OP's problem, I thought it was well known Desura keys were "one key to rule them all", i.e. a single key redeems the whole bundle.
Well I know for a fact that the Humble Bundles all say "All keys are for your personal use only." on the actual page and doubtless in the ToS too.

In fact, JMich's post is a pretty good summary which bundle groups are ok with this and which aren't.
avatar
i666an: ok so i really miffed !!!

I bought the indie bundle to give away and because i have never used this errrr client, i clicked on redeem on 1 of the games - i know have all the games in my client ......

Is there a way to see the keys - so i can give them away ?

Sadly this will be the 1st and last indie bundle i buy, i will get other stuff to giveaway.
You can still give away the Steam keys which are all individual - One Desura key for one game gives you all the Desura games in that bundle.

Also, if you're talking about the new Royale, I'm not sure but it looked as if the Steam key for the anime shooter games unlocked the whole collection of games where as the Desura key did not.
avatar
keeveek: Or we will do what we want, because we can? ;P (and you gave me the key for Puzzle Kingdoms from Indie Gala, you two-face!!!! :P)
avatar
SimonG: I bought that game twice for full price. Probably paid more for one one copy then the next three guys together. Felt more than right to give away another copy.

Was also the last time I preordered any bundle ...

Edit: If that is the gamers mentality, you can hardly blame the industry for DRM. As I asked many times before: "Is the industry screwing us, or are we screwing the industry?"
I don't know if it's "screwing the industry" to give away redundant copies of games. If I already own copies of those indies I have no problem giving away Steam keys. I tend to pay way more than the minimum, if the devs had a problem with it, frankly I'd tell them to kiss my ass.

I do understand there's a limit, if you pay 1 dollar for a HIB it's probably a dick move, as you say, to piece them out to 5 different people. But there's a limit the other way too. If I've purchased Super Mega Puzzle 5 in 3 different bundles, I'm probably going to consider the 3rd, and maybe the second, just like extra copies of a book.
avatar
SimonG: As I said in the post you probably didn't read yet. Piracy is fair game, it is the service that shouldn't be taken advantage of. It might only be a few pennies, but those are running costs. And they can add up.

Also, the "first sale doctrine"or their national "counterparts" are an exception from the norm that was necessary due to the physicality of books and records. The "one license per person" the internet made possible is actually closer "to the norm" than the old retail boxes. You don't have to like it, but if you need to rationalize your behaviour, you have to take other examples.
I am afraid that you don't read yourself. You achieved that worrisome level for any lawyer that takes any law that is written somewhere for granted.

In normal situation, you can transfer the service without a problem. You paid for a massage? No problem if you want to give that massage to your friend, since you already paid for it! You may transfer part of a service too, without a problem in most cases (like washing your car and waxing your friends car, if it doesn't require washing it first) . This is why I told it's ok to give a steam / desura key for a game from the bundle as long as you don't use it by yourself.

This is like you should order a pizza delivery and pay for it for every single person that is gonna eat it. Or every single person in a taxi should pay for a ride , this is the POV of the industry. In normal situations, you pay for the delivery / taxi only once, no matter how many people will use that particular pizza / ride. Your POV is like saying only one person should be present in a taxi at the same time, because you pay the same amount of money no matter if it's 1 or 4 people, so it's screwing taxi industry

One person per license is bullshit. Anyway, it's still one person that uses the service for that particular game, and you accept the TOS for every single game on steam.

And please do not tell other people what they should do in that authoritarian way. I know you are as far as it takes from being liberal, but if somebody decides to gift a single game from a bundle, so be it. For many, there is a big difference between pirating the game or taking one single steam key from it. Your morals do not apply to everyone

By the way, if the answer of borrowing and giving your games / books / music to your friends is DRM, I couldn't care less. I didn't have any objections with overriding, cracking DRM for things I paid for
avatar
orcishgamer: I do understand there's a limit, if you pay 1 dollar for a HIB it's probably a dick move, as you say, to piece them out to 5 different people. But there's a limit the other way too. If I've purchased Super Mega Puzzle 5 in 3 different bundles, I'm probably going to consider the 3rd, and maybe the second, just like extra copies of a book.
Something like that :-) But even more - I am and I will share all my games with my brother without limitations, and noone will tell me that I can't.
Post edited July 01, 2012 by keeveek
avatar
keeveek: In normal situation, you can transfer the service without a problem. You paid for a massage? No problem if you want to give that massage to your friend, since you already paid for it! You may transfer part of a service too, without a problem in most cases (like washing your car and waxing your friends car, if it doesn't require washing it first) . This is why I told it's ok to give a steam / desura key for a game from the bundle as long as you don't use it by yourself.
You reasoning is lacking. Those are "Pay what you want games". Not complete bundles. You buy the Paradox bundle extravaganza, fine, the price includes every copy with service. Those are fair game, I give them away too.

But we are talking about "pay what you want" here.

Now, if you only pay 5$ for a pay what you want bundle, because you only want one game, then you should only use that one game. If you give away those other games (because you won them or whatnot) you effectively didn't pay for that game.

The problem is that you are constructing rationalizations to allow your behavior. Because, for some reason, you need to feel better than your average pirate or freeloader. I'm saying there is no reason for that. If you want a game for free, go pirate it. I'm fully for it.

But don't give me any bullshit that somebody who is gaming the system with cheap "pay what you wants" is somewhere in any way better than a pirate.

avatar
keeveek: This is like you should order a pizza delivery and pay for it for every single person that is gonna eat it. Or every single person in a taxi should pay for a ride , this is the POV of the industry. In normal situations, you pay for the delivery / taxi only once, no matter how many people will use that particular pizza / ride. Your POV is like saying only one person should be present in a taxi at the same time, because you pay the same amount of money no matter if it's 1 or 4 people, so it's screwing taxi industry
You do know that those examples don't make sense. A better example would be that you pay for an "all you can eat buffet" and then start inviting your friends. Not cool.

And apart from that, I'm not saying that the service isn't transferable, I'm saying it shouldn't be transferred because the added costs are not paid by anyone. Hence piracy, no added costs for pubs and devs.

I'm not against people paying the minimum price if they can't pay more, but they should keep any extra keys.

I try encourage people to stop their own bullshit thinking and re-evaluate their behaviour. In the long run, this digital market will can go two ways, either a "pay what you want model" with everything DRM free or the "DRM up your arse until you can't breath anymore". If people keep exploiting the PWYW system like you are suggesting then it will be option two.

But I don't want that, I am very hopeful that option one is for the benefit of everyone. But it requires that those few rules that come with it are at least somewhat followed.

TL:DR: You can't/want't to pay at least the minimum, go pirate it. But don't waste the resources of devs and pubs.
avatar
SirPrimalform: To be honest... you shouldn't really be splitting the bundles up when they come with keys for multiple clients and DRM-free downloads. You're supposed to buy the bundle as a gift if you want to gift it. You're annoyed about not being able to do something you're not supposed to do.
avatar
orcishgamer: There's never been any complaints from any of the bundle folks about this. If I buy a game I already own in a bundle I'm happy to pass a free Steam key along. If you know of any people running bundles who've asked us not to do so, I'd like to know about it.

As for the OP's problem, I thought it was well known Desura keys were "one key to rule them all", i.e. a single key redeems the whole bundle.
I didn't know to be honest - I have only just started playing games after a 12 year break. When I found this site, I decided I wanted to give away as much as possible because of the great community. As I have said in another post, I still cannot get over the generosity of a person here, Cadaver, who gave me a key and it redeemed 3 games !!! - I have those 3 + a few games I have bought from here, so I can happily give games away, as it makes me happy to make others smile.

As I hope you realise by now, this was a genuine mistake, one which I will rectify - I can't be more honest than to say "despite my years, I am very new to the gaming community, and I will learn from my mistakes" :)