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DarrkPhoenix: An update on the proposed law that sparked this thread. The law has effectively been killed, at least for the current session of congress. Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon placed a hold on the bill, stopping it from even coming to vote in the senate for the current session, and forcing it to be reintroduced next session if anyone in congress is still interested in it at that time. If anyone happens to run across Mr. Wyden please buy him a drink and thank him for standing up to this abomination of a law.
His name wouldn't be BRUCE Wyden by any chance, would it? ;D
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Lone3wolf:
Goddamn quoting...

Lone3wolf : You're still forcing people to govern who likely have no interest in it. You're taking everything they own, forcing them in to office, and essentially holding them hostage for a 5 year term. If you can't understand why that notion would cause a mass exodus from your country of anyone qualified, you're being incredibly dense. A country forcing people to give up everything they have and serve most definitely sounds like a dictatorship of the people.

And what happens if the person says no? What about the case of someone being selected who has a family to support and can't make ends meet on your pittance of annual pay? What if someone is selected who it turns out wasn't fit for the job...are they blamed for the fact that they aren't capable of performing because someone else made a bad evaluation?

And you still haven't explained how you're going to gin up a system that will somehow judge how someone did without bias. EVERYONE is biased. Someone could do a fantastic job of doing what they think is best for the country, but a good chunk of people out there will ALWAYS feel differently because everyone has different priorities and a different concept of just what is right for their country. Regardless of whether this was an open vote of the entire populace, or a selected group, there would never, ever be agreement.

For that matter, WHO is selecting this 'lucky few'? Because what you've really done is make the selectors the real powers in your little nation, since they can pick and choose people who will do what they feel is the right path, whether or not it actually is. Once more, your idea runs off the rails when faced with the fact that human beings have bias. On the other hand, national votes where anyone could vote for anyone would result in nothing more than chaos.
Post edited November 21, 2010 by Crassmaster
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Lone3wolf:
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Crassmaster: Goddamn quoting...

Lone3wolf : You're still forcing people to govern who likely have no interest in it. You're taking everything they own, forcing them in to office, and essentially holding them hostage for a 5 year term. If you can't understand why that notion would cause a mass exodus from your country of anyone qualified, you're being incredibly dense. A country forcing people to give up everything they have and serve most definitely sounds like a dictatorship of the people.

And what happens if the person says no? What about the case of someone being selected who has a family to support and can't make ends meet on your pittance of annual pay? What if someone is selected who it turns out wasn't fit for the job...are they blamed for the fact that they aren't capable of performing because someone else made a bad evaluation?

And you still haven't explained how you're going to gin up a system that will somehow judge how someone did without bias. EVERYONE is biased. Someone could do a fantastic job of doing what they think is best for the country, but a good chunk of people out there will ALWAYS feel differently because everyone has different priorities and a different concept of just what is right for their country. Regardless of whether this was an open vote of the entire populace, or a selected group, there would never, ever be agreement.

For that matter, WHO is selecting this 'lucky few'? Because what you've really done is make the selectors the real powers in your little nation, since they can pick and choose people who will do what they feel is the right path, whether or not it actually is. Once more, your idea runs off the rails when faced with the fact that human beings have bias. On the other hand, national votes where anyone could vote for anyone would result in nothing more than chaos.
Read what I wrote. EVERYTHING'S already been answered. Many times. O_o
You've yet to explain who picks the 'lucky rulers'.
You've yet to explain who determines whether they've been successful.
You've yet to explain entirely how their success is determined.
You've yet to explain what happens if someone turns it down.
You've yet to explain who is working as oversight to ensure things are all being done as they should, or how 'what they should' will even be determined.
You've yet to explain how this is all going to circumvent human nature.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.

I can't help it if you can't understand what I wrote, but the answers are there. Read them.
Mayhaps you're expecting a really complicated answer, and the simplicity of the ones I provided are misleading you. READ them.
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Lone3wolf: You know - Communism, REAL Communism, not the Soviet/Chinese/Half-of-Asia abortion, would work in America - they have the money, the technology, the infrastructure and the brains for it.
No. No it wouldn't. It wouldn't work anywhere. Ever.
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Lone3wolf: Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.
Asked and answered.

I can't help it if you can't understand what I wrote, but the answers are there. Read them.
Mayhaps you're expecting a really complicated answer, and the simplicity of the ones I provided are misleading you. READ them.
I'm sorry, but your idea doesn't work. It doesn't. There is no way for you to get past the biases that every single human being possesses, and you would have to do that for this to make a lick of sense.

The issue with lack of understanding is purely yours, for you clearly have no grasp of how people work and think.
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Crassmaster: And who determines whether they did a good job?
This is the tough question isn't it? Determining if they've done a good job when everyone has an opinion about what's good. I think it would actually be pretty simple to achieve if you set up some basic standards, and had a non profit civic group actually keep the voters informed (the mass media in the US is a joke). There are certain things all countries need to have at certain levels in order to be healthy, and these are what the criteria should revolve around. Of course, this requires education to change radically. As in getting it away from the federal government brainwashing camp and letting it become a community endeavor. Too much power has been stripped from local communities in t he US.

I would support a pay-for-results system for government; it would (hopefully) keep the idiot richboys in our oligarchy out of the way. We have some amazingly educated, yet stupid rich twerps in Washington, whose endless arrogance causes problems. These people don't give a rip what happens to the country/world or they have no clue what to do about it.
Post edited November 24, 2010 by Abowen