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Roberttitus: I see people on here talking about using them from time to time & I think it would be nice to have them for a couple of my games. That being said... can I use them without fear of facing jail time or a ginormous fine?
They definitely violate the ToS or other licence attached to the game. It's not law breaking, it's breach of contract. There wasn't even a single case filed against someone who USED crack for the game s/he owns.

If you MAKE a no-cd patch, you break the copyright law.

And from the moral point of view, if you paid for the game, you do no harm.

I personally use no-cd cracks only if game is on like 5 cd's , and I don't want to juggle the discs while playing.
Post edited August 29, 2011 by keeveek
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Roberttitus: I see people on here talking about using them from time to time & I think it would be nice to have them for a couple of my games. That being said... can I use them without fear of facing jail time or a ginormous fine?
You'll probably not facing jail since this is not a very serious crime. However since it's not legal if you'd ever get caught (which is extremely unlikely) you'd face a fine. I guess we are talking about non-official patches for circumventing disk checks of copyrighted material.

I use them and I feel morally justified to do so because I bought all the games.
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DebugMode: lolwut?
Most (if not all) developers have a vanilla version of their games that they give to the publishers who can then throw every kind of abnormal DRM into it.
If a publisher like GOG decides to not add one it stays DRM free.
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cogadh: Nope. On several occasions, the GOG version was the original retail release, complete with DRM (a gold master without DRM was no longer available). GOG applied the crack and packaged it up for sale, sans the cracker's "signature" in the cracked executable. The cracking "scene" went bananas when it was discovered. GOG even admitted it openly, saying basically that when the need arises, they will use whatever means possible to remove the DRM.
Exactly. Some games, for example, FlatOut, still have some DRM files with them. 'paul.dll' is a dll file that SecuROM uses, and it still comes with the game, but it is not used by the game, as the crackers have removed the code that calls for that file from the main executable.
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keeveek: They definitely violate the ToS or other licence attached to the game. It's not law breaking, it's breach of contract. There wasn't even a single case filed against someone who USED crack for the game s/he owns.

If you MAKE a no-cd patch, you break the copyright law.

And from the moral point of view, if you paid for the game, you do no harm.

I personally use no-cd cracks only if game is on like 5 cd's , and I don't want to juggle the discs while playing.
Depends on where you live so check your local law

Finnish copyright law (8.7.1961/404 25 j)

He who has lawfully acquired a computer program may create copies and changes that are necessary for using the program for its intended purpose. This also applies to correcting errors.
another section (8.7.1961/404 25 k) talks a bit more about reverse engineering and ends with a paragraph that should nullify any clauses in EULA which prevent reverse engineering
Post edited August 29, 2011 by Sude
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Sude: Depends on where you live so check your local law

Finnish copyright law (8.7.1961/404 25 j)

He who has lawfully acquired a computer program may create copies and changes that are necessary for using the program for its intended purpose. This also applies to correcting errors.


another section (8.7.1961/404 25 k) talks a bit more about reverse engineering and ends with a paragraph that should nullify any clauses in EULA which prevent reverse engineering
I dunno about the other section, but the quoted one, very clearly does not support the creation and/or use of no CD cracks.
Note the words 'necessary' and 'intended purpose'.

Intended purpose is very clearly to be played with the CD in the drive. If you can play the game fine with the CD in the drive, then there are no changes necessary to use it for it's intended purpose.

and as much as we might like to believe that DRM is an error, it is not, and only becomes one when it is preventing the game from being played as intended.

It can even be argued, if it came down to it, that limited activations are 'using the program for it's intended purpose', so if you make a crack because you want to install the PC on a 6th machine on a 5 activation limit, you're 'not using the software for it's intended purpose'.

'intended purpose' really leaves a lot of power in the hands of the developers/publishers.
Post edited August 29, 2011 by Zolgar
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Sude: He who has lawfully acquired a computer program may create copies and changes that are necessary for using the program for its intended purpose. This also applies to correcting errors.
We have similar things in Poland. But you can't upload your own crack to the internet legally. You may make one, you may download one, you may use one, but you can't upload it to the net without breaking the law.
I dunno about the other section, but the quoted one, very clearly does not support the creation and/or use of no CD cracks.
Note the words 'necessary' and 'intended purpose'.
Polish Supreme Court said, that necessary does not mean "necessary in this exact moment". For example, If you want to make a copy to play on your netbook, that doesn't have DVD-ROM, you may create a backup copy with no-cd crack earlier.

Also, every license provisions, that forbid you to create a backup copy (and it's impossible to create a backup copy without disabling the DRM) are void.

For example, you may create a backup copy "just in case" (because you obviously can't create a copy from damaged disc) , but you can't install and use the backup at the same time as the original copy.
Post edited August 29, 2011 by keeveek
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keeveek: Polish Supreme Court said, that necessary does not mean "necessary in this exact moment". For example, If you want to make a copy to play on your netbook, that doesn't have DVD-ROM, you may create a backup copy with no-cd crack earlier.
One could still try to argue though that 'as intended' means 'with the CD'. Even so far as to say that it means 'with the original cd'.

Would be kinda interesting to see the outcome of someone attempting that.
I used one yesterday and as soon as I did Interpol burst through the door and carted me away :(
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cjrgreen: ALMOST ALL No-CD cracks are meant for one purpose only, and that is piracy.
While I can agree with you and your attitude very far here then I do not think that you will agree with me and mine.

I think that it is true that "ALMOST ALL No-CD cracks are meant for one purpose only, and that is piracy. " (or mostly all)
However as long as there are companies out there that basically says "f**k you" when their DRM protected disc can't be helped to run on your computer then I think that it is nice that something as a No-CD patch exists.
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cjrgreen: Mere convenience is not a justification like the need to use a backup or make the software compatible with recalcitrant hardware. Using no-cd cracks for convenience encourages pirates.
Being a person that has bought many games on discs with DRM protection and having such discs fail on me then I think that it ought to be a consumer right to be able to copy their discs and while retaining/possessing the original use the copy on their system instead.
E.g. I think that I have the original Lemmings game on diskette somewhere and I never were able to make a backup copy. Also I have had more original CDs physically crack/break for me (by nothing but simple normal use) , so that they couldn't be used. So with so many companies going out of business and the fact that you most often have to pay to get discs replaced, if possible at all, then I think that people often have no choice but to try to circumvent copy protection.

I think that consumer protection needs to be stepped up a lot/very seriously, so that people will always be protected once that they have bought the software/game even if the company cease to exist or a change of available media readers should take place.
In short , then I think that anyone buying a license (and keep owning this) to a game or piece of software should always be able to get a free copy (or for a nominal fee) from a central digital repository that anyone selling anything, be that physical or digital, should be forced to hand over a digital copy to such a central digital repository and thus securing the consumer .
As long as they, one way or the other, have the right to screw people then I can't see an end to piracy. I think that to end piracy you need to make the common people think it morally wrong, and I don't think that people will see it as wrong as long as they are getting screwed...
Also I think that people with intellectual property rights to whatever ought to be forced to make the material available to common people at fair prices every time a certain number of years has passed so that people are not sitting and wanting the stuff with no legal way getting it.....
(I could mention more movies that I have never been able buy on DVD though they are with a number of very well known actors/actresses - so I am fairly annoyed !!!! , and many here wants old games that are either not available or not available at a reasonable/fair price)
Post edited August 29, 2011 by FiatLux
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Roberttitus: I see people on here talking about using them from time to time & I think it would be nice to have them for a couple of my games. That being said... can I use them without fear of facing jail time or a ginormous fine?
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keeveek: They definitely violate the ToS or other licence attached to the game. It's not law breaking, it's breach of contract. There wasn't even a single case filed against someone who USED crack for the game s/he owns.

If you MAKE a no-cd patch, you break the copyright law.

And from the moral point of view, if you paid for the game, you do no harm.

I personally use no-cd cracks only if game is on like 5 cd's , and I don't want to juggle the discs while playing.
That's not really how that works. By the time you get the chance to crack the executable you've already forfeited any chance of getting a refund and you own that copy.

And ultimately, EULAs themselves have to conform to the laws in that jurisdiction. Which they frequently don't, just putting language into a EULA doesn't magically make it enforceable.

In this case it's a moot point for me as they'd have to prove that not only is it a tort, but that they were in some way damaged by it.
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keeveek: Polish Supreme Court said, that necessary does not mean "necessary in this exact moment". For example, If you want to make a copy to play on your netbook, that doesn't have DVD-ROM, you may create a backup copy with no-cd crack earlier.
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Zolgar: One could still try to argue though that 'as intended' means 'with the CD'. Even so far as to say that it means 'with the original cd'.

Would be kinda interesting to see the outcome of someone attempting that.
Only if with "intended" is meant the intention of the publisher. Because there is the advertised intention of the software and the intention of the customer what to do with the software.
And since allowing them to restrict customer that way would open some ugly doors, i highly doubt they meant the hidden intentions of the publishers.
It would also contradict with your right to make a working backup copy.
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cjrgreen: The attitude that it is just fine to aid and abet pirates by pretending that their illegal creations are somehow something you may use freely and defend the use of just makes me sick, and I have no intention of debating it further,
Maybe if editors were releasing CD check/DRM removal patch on their own some weeks/months after releases, peoples wouldn't be waiting/expecting pirates to do it.

Personally while against "piracy", I am extremely glad that there are crackers around here to release no-cd/no-drm cracks, without them there are a good number of legally bought games I wouldn't have been able to play/replay.
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cjrgreen: The attitude that it is just fine to aid and abet pirates by pretending that their illegal creations are somehow something you may use freely and defend the use of just makes me sick, and I have no intention of debating it further,
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Gersen: Maybe if editors were releasing CD check/DRM removal patch on their own some weeks/months after releases, peoples wouldn't be waiting/expecting pirates to do it.

Personally while against "piracy", I am extremely glad that there are crackers around here to release no-cd/no-drm cracks, without them there are a good number of legally bought games I wouldn't have been able to play/replay.
Same here. It's been years since I pirated software and have no interest in doing so in the future, but I'm not about to buy a new copy because the DRM is preventing me from making use of something that I paid for.

As unfortunate as it is, pirates are the only reliable source of such patches. Blizzard has been pretty good about releasing them in the past, but I doubt that's going to be the case in the future if they're new DRM is any indication.
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Gersen: Maybe if editors were releasing CD check/DRM removal patch on their own some weeks/months after releases, peoples wouldn't be waiting/expecting pirates to do it.
Maybe if they made a habit of doing that then crackers wouldn't be motivated to put all the effort into making a crack at all given that it would become obsolete so quickly. That would seriously interfere with "new release" piracy. </speculation>
Post edited August 29, 2011 by Barefoot_Monkey
Unless its to pirate games or to put copies on friend's computers, I wouldn't worry about it. Most users of it do it just so they don't have to carry a bunch of discs around with them.