Hey all,

Just at work and waiting for 5 to hit so I can get home and play Arcanum and was wondering if anyone here is involved in their own indie game projects? I used to dream of making games when I was a kid and would design them myself (I bet everyone here did!). I'm kind of daydreaming but I'd love to be involved in something like that (would love to write for an RPG or something). Is there much of that going on within the GOG community?

Currently in production of an interactive rendering of patty cake in the unreal engine.

I know there was a very similar topic about a week ago.
But the search function is shite so it might never be found.

It is definitely one of my dreams is to design games, as I study them more than I play them. I have a few designs ready to go, in turn based strategy and a 3rd person space shooter sci-fi with a story filled with intrigue, tragic history and colorful characters (no Aliens :P).

Though my most pressing goal is to finish an epic fantasy series of novels I’ve been working on, for over a decade, and then adapt them to RPGs and strategy games. Once my novels are ready to be published I don’t think I’ll have too much of a problem being able to recruit a developer to help me accomplish the game development. (Nudge, Poke CD Project Red..)

TL;DR: It is not as fun as it may seem.

Sure, that is something everyone thinks about games:
"I like to play computer games. I think I know what would make some of these games better. I wish someone would implement these awesome ideas I have! That would be great!"

I can think of some problems with that reasoning.

First, as soon as you /have to do/ something, it is no longer fun. I have never seen a game reviewer saying that their work is lots of fun. Thus, if your next paycheck depends on it, if you cannot wait to be in the mood to do it, if you have deadlines, I don't think it can be fun. To me, it can only be fun if I have the choice to *not* do it, without consequences. But you can do it part-time, just for kicks, right?

The problem is that the level of interactivity of an application dictates how hard it is to get it right (as in error free). Good games may be the most hellish kind of software to write, exceeded only the critical software (like the stuff that runs on space probes, nuclear power stations or the software that deploys the airbags on your car --- you really can't "patch" that easily).

But finally you did something cool. The game kind of works, in a prototype fashion. Yay! You are so proud! You run to show it to someone. But it is like a 5 year-old showing their great drawing to his parents. They see a knight fighting a dragon. The adults see a bunch of colorful lines. "Err... nice... dog, Tommy!"
Murphy dictates that whenever you show your program to someone, it crashes horribly. ALWAYS!

But you only want to *design* the game, right? Someone else does the hard work. (Someone you don't want to pay lots of money to work on your great idea). Is your specification complete? Have you ever played a boardgame where you get into a situation where the rules were not clear? And are you sure the balance is correct? Is the design solid before the coding phase started (it is harder to change things afterwards)?

Knowing how hard it is to make games makes me appreciate them more. Would I like to create one? Hell yes! I already have some notes taken, I just need the time. :-D

I do. I really like working on projects myself, even if it means having to spend a lot of time and energy working around my own limitations (and getting flack for them :P).

Yeah, making games is hard, and doing all the marketing and promotion garbage is hard too. And when you finally get some decent exposure, it's hard at first to deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are seeing or playing your game, and possibly hating it, and you as a result. But honestly, all of that is the good kind of hard. At least for me. I mean, it's basically what I spend my free time doing. There's a reason I have no social life :P

The hardest part is when nobody is paying any attention to your stuff, and feeling like there's nothing you can do about it, and I think that's honestly the part of indie game development that separates the sheep from the goats (or the insane from the sane). It takes a very special sort of obsession to continue spending your free time working on projects that you know nobody will play.

Yup, I used to play around with Game Maker, RPG Maker II, and other software when I was a kid. I never had the dedication to complete anything, though. I would usually only work on a game long enough to make it playable for my own enjoyment, then I would move on to something else. I never thought about making something to publish, I just wanted to play the games.

I think the only project I got pretty far in is a remake of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest. I just reused assests from a few different CV games, but I had the world mostly mapped out and explorable. But then it came time to programming enemies and inventory and stats, etc, and I lost interest.

I would like to get back into game making, but I think the only thing I can do is graphics and design. Programming is mostly beyond me.

Ooh, yeah. When I was 14, I decided that my life goal was to make first person shooters, and spent an obscene amount of time trying to code a 3d engine in Qbasic. Which I never really succeeded at.

I used to make text-based adventures in Qbasic back in middle school, but a 3D engine? is that even possible? xD

Actually, I did see a DOOM-like engine running in Qbasic, but without any objects. Edit: here it is! http://oddville.yolasite.com/qbasic-3d.php

It IS possible, yes. If you are good at programming and that sort of higher-level math. Which I am not. Sadly, it took me a few years of frustration to figure that out :(

Here's Qbasic's Crysis, if you're interested:

https://archive.org/details/MuxqbasicGame

I think I tried running it through DosBox awhile ago, but I didn't have much luck.

Ahh, nostalgia... my youth was spent playing freeware Qbasic games. There was a certain mystical charm to them.

It runs at about 5 frames per second for me in DOSBox. Still, that's the most impressive thing I I've ever seen in Qbasic, thank you for sharing!

This is how modding communities evolve, from shared interests, and dedicated people who work to implement those changes.

Sometimes work can be fun, I used to develop software for MRP (manufacturing) and accounting systems, and enjoyed my work. Developing a game engine is definitely one of the most "hostile" programming environments known when it comes to challenges to face, Luckily there are lots of game engines already developed that can be used. Some are even available as freeware so aspiring developers can create their Proof of Concepts to market or share as a hobby.

There are some fine examples of single developers out there who have created games, but they are limiting the potential to exploit the medium of gaming. It is rare to find someone who can code AI for bots, multiplayer layers, do 3d modeling, animation and textures, as well as writing an overall story, plus dialogs, multiple endings, and also design artwork and color schemes to compliment the writing.

I see games as having great potential as a medium for telling stories, very much like movies, only they are interactive and have possibilities for multiple endings, and I believe they benefit most by having a team of individuals working together on the production. By success, I mean creating a real work of art, and a great gaming experience, not profitability (which may or may not come, depending on timing, marketing but it not a sole measure for success).

;)

My first programming projects were games, although everything I did was pretty simple and I didn't get that far. I did work on a commercial game, though not a successful one. I still think about game creation these days, but it gets lost amongst all the other things I want to do in my limited time. (And I really should spend less time reading forum posts and posting.) I realise it's a response to GhostwriterDoF, but your post still ticked me off.

That's definitely not true. What's true is that when you have to do something there are parts which aren't fun, and if you didn't have to do that, you might stop at that point. So it's good that you're actually forced to do it. But a lot of it is fun. The level of interactivity also makes development a lot more rewarding. When you can see your work come to life, that's a lot more fun than some doing some database work for a bank. IMO. That's nonsense. Really. Sure, some people will create garbage, but games are so varied and the audience so large that for many games you can find the people who will enjoy it. And if your game crashes, and hey, it happens to the best, you know what you do? You fix it.

And really, what's the point of the argument? To tell people not to try something that's hard? That's a rather stupid lesson. If you try it, and you practice, you will get better, and you will likely eventually make something that's pretty good. Writing simple games isn't hard with today's tools. And sure, the distance between having an idea and creating something is very large, but if you put your mind to it, it's certainly far from insurmountable.

Agreed. I focused too much on creating a game "from scratch".
Modders already have much of the tedious work cut out for them, and great games came out of them much more easily.

The same can be said about using game creation kits. You will be limited somehow, but they can be very helpful.

And those are some of my gaming heroes! Jeff Vogel, Victor Davis, David Braben or Éric Chahi worked alone or almost alone to create what I consider masterpieces. But many more tried and failed. We mostly hear success stories. I wanted to report on the other side. The unsung and forgotten side we never hear about (unless its John Romero).

We are almost on the same page on this. I enjoy to see developers pushing gaming towards an art form (Quantic Dream for example, but see also Passage). The interactivity can break many barriers that can be seen on non-performing art. But I don't see it reaching its potential during my lifetime. :-(

Also, profitability can be, in large part, what determines if you will be able to get up and retry should you fail. I'm all for the small games, but people need to make a living.

I'm sorry if I offended you somehow. I am enjoying this discussion, though, and I welcome your point of view.

I agree on what you say. The "not fun" parts that must be done are overwhelmingly what kills the enjoyment when doing some activity on the short term. But even when you can avoid doing them, there is also the law of diminishing marginal utility, that says that the more you do something, the less you will enjoy it. And finally --- and maybe I should have stated it more as the opinion that it is ---, I may not be in the mood for delicious cake today. If I have to eat it, it will not make me happy.

Some if it is fun. I won't argue with that. But let us consider also the time it takes to get things right, testing, fixing bugs, figuring out things you forgot, documenting, revising and so on. I don't think those are as much fun as creating gameplay rules or new content.

Absolutely not! No! I wanted to stress that making games is hard, yes. Many people do not understand that, and say "this is rubbish" left and right, without an idea of how difficult it is to get something that complex into existence (not only in games but everywhere around us).

We tend to associate games with our entertainment. But behind the curtains often lies not so fun stories. I tremble whenever I hear some kid say he wants to make a living in the videogame industry. I worked in it for a short while, and while it has its ups and downs, the downs can be very low and long. It is a personal choice, yes, but they should be aware of what to expect.

In short: it is not always fun. You can learn a lot, you can enjoy it a lot. I hope you do! It can be a really worthwhile experience! But if you want to get serious with it, be prepared for the not-so-glamorous times, the hair pulling and the darker moments.
But then again, that may be true with everything. :-/

Making a beat-em-up
not fucking it up now