It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Stevedog13: snip
avatar
bazilisek: Again, whatever floats your boat. You enjoy your hair shirt, I will enjoy my New Vegas. I just wonder which one of us will be happier at the end of the day.
avatar
Fred_DM: you're in the GOG forum, where DRM and distributors are more important than the games themselves.
avatar
bazilisek: Yeah, I know. I still don't understand it, though.
Am I happy about not playing the game? No, not really. But I am happy that I don't have to deal with Steam, from my point of view it is the Steam users who have the "hair shirts". I am not a criminal, I should not have to prove that I legally purchased something everytime I use it. If I were a pirate I would be telling you how great the game is and finding out how you solved certain quests, but because I'm honest I get punished.

One question I do have of those who defend Steam like this is: What is so wrong with someone not wanting to use Steam? If I said I wanted to play the game with a widescreen monitor, there would be helpful people showing me how to set it up. If I said I wanted the game to take full advantage of my multi-core processor and 8GB of RAM, there would be people pointing me to the unofficial patches that do this. If I said that I want to play using 6-Axis joystick rather than the mouse & keyboard there is at least one person out there who could tell me how. But if someone says they want to play a game without using Steam the overwhelming response is basically "Whats wrong with you?"
Steam is an artificial requirement that is more trouble to me than it is worth, it adds nothing to my gaming experience and I don't want it. Why am I, and others like me, treated with such disdain? It's not like we are trying to take something away from those who do use Steam.
avatar
Stevedog13: One question I do have of those who defend Steam like this is: What is so wrong with someone not wanting to use Steam?
There's nothing at all wrong with it. But unlike all your other examples, there's nothing stopping you except your own head, you see.

Bad analogy time: you're a vegetarian asking us how to enjoy a meal at Burger King. Long story short, you can't. Either you sacrifice your principles, or you don't eat your whopper. That's all there is to it.

I'm not saying you're taking anything from me (I don't even think I'm defending Steam here, to be honest); quite frankly, I do not care the tiniest bit whether you played New Vegas or not. I'm just saying that this particular whopper is really damn tasty, sorry about that, Mrs Cow.
avatar
Stevedog13: Why am I, and others like me, treated with such disdain? It's not like we are trying to take something away from those who do use Steam.
I do it because most people use either false legal assumption, unfitting analogies, lack of common sense, etc. And they do it with a great conviction. Therefore I object with great conviction.

To take up the vegetarian example: I get it when people say they don't eat meat because they don't like the taste of it. Or even because it is bad for global warming. But I will say something if people come around and say eating meat is bad because it is racist against Australians.

Let's take your "Steam wants me to prove I legally purchased a game everytime I start it". No, Steam only checks one time if you legally purchased a game. What Steam does check everytime you go online is you have signed up to their service. Do you feel criminalized everytime you show your card when you enter a gym? Do seniors/pupils feel criminalized whenever they show their bus-tickets? (And even that can be easily avoided)

See? If you would have said, I don't like Steam, because I don't like the service they offer and I don't need it. Great, I would have said nothing. But by your "asspull" of reasoning I felt the need to say something because some impressionable kids might actually believe that BS.

There are plenty of misconceptions and simple lies about Steam. I correct those. Real shortcomings of Steam I do not object. (Regional restrictions, eg.). But whenever some wiseass tells me "I don't own my Steam games" I feel the need to correct such BS.
Post edited July 02, 2012 by SimonG
I use GOG.com for old games, D2D (now Gamefly, but I haven't yet bought any since the change) and Steam for super discounted games not on GOG, and retail for brand new games. I don't think I've ever bought a game at full price on either D2D or Steam, and I have a hard time imagining myself paying full price for a game that doesn't include a box and all the goodies within. If I care enough about a game to buy it full price, then I definitely don't want digital only...
Post edited July 02, 2012 by Tallin
avatar
bazilisek: Bad analogy time: you're a vegetarian asking us how to enjoy a meal at Burger King. Long story short, you can't. Either you sacrifice your principles, or you don't eat your whopper. That's all there is to it.
FYI you can get a veggieburger at BK (and it's pretty decent for fast food). McDonald's is another story...

It's interesting to see how other people use these services. I buy like 2-3 new releases at full retail per year, and for those I prefer a box. I pretty much only buy deep discounts online, preferably on GOG, but sometimes steam wins the pricewar (or availability). One exception I did make was the Witcher 2 that I pre-ordered here, as I was sold on the online content and DRM-free policy. Sadly, I probably would have still paid them like 5 or 10 extra bucks to send me an empty box :) (it's like having books you really enjoyed sitting on your shelf).

As for steam, I dislike it in principle, haven't had any deal breaking experiences with the DRM, and basically only buy things there for a 'rental' price anyways, so it's been a crap shoot that's paid off. I would never buy anything full retail there though.
Those were some good analogies, better than the ubiquitous car analogies. Allow me to use those.

If I were a vegan and I ordered food at a Burger King and then complained that I couldn't eat it then I would be an idiot who deserves the expected ridicule as result. Now not being an idiot I would go across town to the Veggie Hut to get vegan friendly meals. If one day I discover that Veggie Hut has replaced their menu with the Burger King menu then I would be upset. Being told to just live with it or go home would not be an acceptable resolution.

If I want to go to a gym every morning then yes I do expect to have to show that I am a valid member of the gym when I go in. Instead I decide that I can build a better home gym in my basement. If I go to the sporting goods store to buy another set of weight plates then I should be upset if I had to show the cashier proof of gym membership, I'm buying the plates to avoid gym membership. Being told how easy it is to get a membership and how much others love the gym does not make it any better.

I expect to either show a pass or pay a usage fee whenever I take public transportation. I should not expect to have to show my bus pass everytime I put gas in my car.

If the gym membership and bus pass examples were real they would be classified as Third Line Forcing which is illegal under my country's anti trust laws, I don't see how Steam is any different and I won't be a part of it. I don't like Steam, I don't want it, my computer isn't setup to be able to use it. I am not complaining that I purchased a game through Steam and now have to use Steam to play it, that would be asinine. I know what Steam is and how it works so I have chosen not to use it. I am willing to go out of my way and even spend a little bit of extra money to get Steam free versions of these games, but I can't. No matter where I go all legal copies of the games that I want to buy are irrevocably tied to Steam. This is what I feel is the crux of every Steam/No Steam argument, the Go Steam or Go Home attitude of many publishers and a growing number of gamers. I don't believe tthat I am alone when I say that I don't like those options.
avatar
Stevedog13: If I were a vegan and I ordered food at a Burger King and then complained that I couldn't eat it then I would be an idiot who deserves the expected ridicule as result. Now not being an idiot I would go across town to the Veggie Hut to get vegan friendly meals. If one day I discover that Veggie Hut has replaced their menu with the Burger King menu then I would be upset. Being told to just live with it or go home would not be an acceptable resolution.
You're misconstructing the analogy, I'm afraid. The idea is this: someone is making a delicious burger (F:NV), but only sells it with meat in it (Steamworks). You're a vegetarian, and don't want meat in your burger. Now I absolutely agree with you that the seller of the burger is being a bit of a jerk when he refuses to sell this burger without the meat; he could do that quite easily, but he just doesn't want to. Too bad for you (and by extension, too bad for him). But your Veggie Hut remains perfectly intact; it never had that particular burger on its menu in the first place.

In this scenario, I feel some sympathy for the poor vegetarian. I feel considerably less sympathy for the strictly-no-DRM crowd in the New Vegas/Steam controversy, because in their cause, there is no industrial-scale murder involved. In fact, the whole dilemma feels rather artificial to me.
Post edited July 02, 2012 by bazilisek