It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Swedrami: 2. If it has been ported to a personal computer system (which I'd consider the main decisive criteria, C = [personal] computer) then yes. If that's not the case, then no.
avatar
dtgreene: So, you're saying that, when a game is ported to another system, that can change the game's genre?
Not generally of course, should have made that more clearer. I'm sure there would be exceptions, for one reason or another.
I don't consider CRPG a genre, that would be RPG.
CRPG is more of a (sub)category to distinguish RPGs from one another. Hence ARPG, WRPG, TRPG (Tactical), SRPG (Strategy), JRPG, K(orean)RPG(?), etc.

Therefore porting is not changing the genre but merely opens up the opportunity to put the game in question into the C(omputer)RPG (sub)category. A very superficial and simple "cop-out"-kind of approach, I'm well aware.
Post edited June 03, 2022 by Swedrami
CRPG after the '80s is synonymous with WRPG I think. But it took a good while until they could basically port them 1:1 to consoles so they are distinguished in some ways from console ones in that sense.

1. I would say the Romancing Saga games or at least the first which is the only one I've beaten so far, in terms of gameplay/structure. Open-ended and interactive dialogue where dialogue choices matter

2. No I think that's one of the early, proper JRPGs after FF3 and Phantasy Star, which go in that direction but are limited partly by being 8-bit games. Haven't played DQ4 yet.
Post edited June 03, 2022 by ResidentLeever
Well, it's easy for me.
CRPG is a RPG that was made with a PC in mind and it would be not compatible with consoles, or at least not optimally (bless keyboard and mouse).
That's really all there is to say.

So, the questions:

1-Fable, for example.

2-No, for the reasons mentioned above.
avatar
ResidentLeever: 2. No I think that's one of the early, proper JRPGs after FF3 and Phantasy Star, which go in that direction but are limited partly by being 8-bit games. Haven't played DQ4 yet.
Phantasy Star 1 honestly still feels like an early WRPG, or perhaps what I'd call a proto-RPG. Many of the elements seem to resemble earlier Ultima games, actually. In particular, we see a few elements that aren't exactly standard in the JRPG genre:
* While the overworld is in overhead view, dungeons are first person, much like in Ultima 1-5.
* You have to spend time fighting enemies to earn experience in order to level up to continue with the game, particularly early on. In addition, this game has mandatory purchases that can take a fair amount of money, and are for essential items such as vehicles. (Purchasing vehicles reminds me of Ultima 1, actually.)
* While the first half of the game is linear, the second half is non-linear, which is not that common in JRPGs. (With that said, you do see non-linear parts in some JRPGs, most famously Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger, which are structurally similar (ignoring Chrono Trigger's early victory possibilities) to Phantasy Star 1.

Final Fantasy 3 feels like an expanded Final Fantasy 1, except without the non-linearity, and it does suffer from boring random encounter design in a way that FF1 does not.

Dragon Quest 4 is interesting in its chapter structure, with each chapter starring different characters. By the way, if you play a remake version of DQ4 and want a more authentic feel, try not using the "Follow Orders" tactic in Chapter 5; the original didn't let you directly control your characters in the last chapter, and that gives the game a rather unique feel. (I would say it's still OK to choose different tactics for different characters, even though the original did not allow this, as you would still get the same feel this way; furthermore, Chapter 6 was not in the original so I would say it's not necessary to continue using AI control at that point.)

(Interesting that I've found reason to mention Chrono Trigger twice in this thread.)
I really despise the fact that "CRPG" has come to be commonly used to indicate a game's content or design ethos, as opposed to indicating that it's an RPG that is played on a computer (though I, personally, would also accept "console" as the "C" in "CRPG"), as opposed to at a table, with books, dice, pencils and paper (a TTRPG or PPRPG).
avatar
HunchBluntley: I really despise the fact that "CRPG" has come to be commonly used to indicate a game's content or design ethos, as opposed to indicating that it's an RPG that is played on a computer (though I, personally, would also accept "console" as the "C" in "CRPG"), as opposed to at a table, with books, dice, pencils and paper (a TTRPG or PPRPG).
That's how I understood it my all life and considered obvious for anyone so now I'm really baffled seeing how some people tend to overthink and complicate things.
If you want to be technical, a CRPG is any video game that is an adaptation of or otherwise inspired by tabletop roleplaying games, so basically any roleplaying video game.

But uh, most people use the phrase to refer to what I've heard at least one YouTuber call the "boomer RPG", pre-2000s (or otherwise derivative) WRPGs designed for PCs as opposed to later WRPGs like BioWare's KOTOR. Same guy also called games like classic Fallout and Arcanum as "isometric immersive sims". I've also heard arguments that Deus Ex would also fit into the CRPG label since it basically asks players to make choices and reap the consequences while still being a linear narrative, which I will agree with.

But to answer your questions:

1. "Can you name a WRPG that is not a CRPG?"
Probably Fallout 4. I admittedly have not played a lot of it, but enough to comment on its merits, but it was basically not really designed as an RPG. It has enough roleplaying to qualify it as an RPG, but it is basically so weak in that regard that I do not blame people for not counting it as such, especially with regard to its lineage.

2. "Are JRPGs CRPGs?"
I will freely admit that I have very limited exposure to JRPGs, every time I tried them out (FFVII, Tales of Vesperia, Octopath Traveler), the first hour gave poor impressions to the point I could not appropriately approach them as proper RPGs. They felt more concerned with being weird animes than games where you roleplay. And also, my time is limited these days, I can rarely actually bother to put in a lot of game time anyway. I have too much stuff I've left just sitting on the stove as is.

So instead, I will substitute Dark Souls II, the one game I actually bothered to nearly beat but not really. Plus, those games are so often considered WRPGs, surely they'd count right? So is Dark Souls II a CRPG? No. It is so fundamentally rooted in its combat systems that it basically disregards almost everything else. Its character system basically revolves around being an avatar of violence. That's not to say the majority of WRPGs don't do that, but even something like Fable attempts to simulate social interactions. Even Fallout 4 asks you to voice an opinion, or steal stuff, or pick locks for an alternate route, or farm, etc.

I think someone once mentioned that the fundamental characteristics of a CRPG is its character sheet. That sounds about right.