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General discussionWould you play this sort of RTS with pause?(19 posts)(19 posts)
(19 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 29, 2017
I am curious about who would play this sort of game. Here is the sort of game I am referring to:

* Basic gameplay is that of a traditional RTS, where you build units and use them to gather materials that, in turn, allow you to build more units. There would, of course, be other elements typical of the RTS genre, including combat with opponent units (of course).
* You can pause the game. Furthermore, while the game is paused, you can issue orders to units, as well as building orders, which will be carried out when the game is unpaused.
* In order to make multiplayer not take too long, each player is given a pause time limit; if that time limit runs out, the game will unpause and that player loses the ability to pause for the rest of the game. In single player, this limit is infinite by default, while the default limit for multiplayer would be determined and adjusted as a result of playtesting. (We could, for example, start with a limit of 5 minutes per player, but playtesting may determine that 5 minutes is too much or too little.) The AI will never pause the game (it doesn't need to, and it doesn't make sense to annoy human players with unnecessary pauses, especially in single player).

Would you play a game like this? Also, has there been a game like this? (Games like Baldur's Gate don't count here, because while they could be considered RTS with pause, the games tend to be structured more like WRPGs and don't have you building new units or gathering resources; with that said, those games are partly where this idea comes from.) (I wouldn't play this sort of game, but then again, I have no interest in RTS games, so I wouldn't even be in the target audience.)
Posted April 29, 2017
Personally I wouldn't mind an RTS that allowed for more deliberation over just maximizing use of keybind/shortcuts.

That said, it does somewhat hamper the 'Real-time' in RTS, and I just don't see how you'd make it fly in online multi-player. I can't remember if Rise of Nations allows pause in MP, but it did in 1P and I really loved it for that reason and others.
Posted April 29, 2017
I would at least play the single-player. Not sure about multiplayer because I don't play RTS games in multiplayer, plus the whole system (you lose your ability to pause for the rest of the game if you exceed the time limit once?) sounds a bit gimmicky for multiplayer. Also I am unsure if multiplayer becomes boring and too uneven experience when you have to wait for minutes for your own turn.

Yes I also had the Baldur's Gate combat in mind, I presume it would work similarly. A pause system (also in RTS games) would definitely make sense because it grants you the same ability that the computer AI already has: issuing lots of orders at the same time. You as a human player have to scroll all over the map back and forth to give your units specific orders, have to issue orders per unit or per group etc., while the computer can do all that in a microsecond, continuously.

Normally single-player RTS games try to compensate for that by allowing you to slow down the gameplay in case things get hectic; i just see pause as the ability to slow the gameplay all the way down to a halt. Then there are those RTS games which restrict how much you can slow the game down (e.g. Starcraft 2), basically making the game harder for you by not allowing slowing the game down. I hate such RTS games.
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bler144: I can't remember if Rise of Nations allows pause in MP, but it did in 1P and I really loved it for that reason and others.
Hmm, how come I don't remember that? Maybe I just didn't need it because RoN also allowed you to slow the game all the way down, granting you lots of time to issue orders.
Post edited April 29, 2017 by timppu
Posted April 29, 2017
Real time with pause, eh? Well, I've played Hybrid turn systems before, if I'm remembering Cyberstorm 2, it used Simultaneous Turn Resolution.

There's also Dwarf Fortress which is so complex that a pause to issue orders is mandatory, I suppose it depends on what end of the sliding scale it lands on.
Posted April 29, 2017
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dtgreene: Would you play a game like this?
Absolutely.

My biggest complaint about RTSs is that a lot of excellent "spells" (or special abilities if it's sci-fi, or whatever the equivalent is) are wasted and I never use them, because it's very difficult to use them in the heat of combat.

e.g. there might be a "shield" spell that halves damage done to a single target unit. Problem is, if my force of 5 footmen and 2 mages get attacked, then I have to select a mage, click (or press keyboard shortcut) for the spell, select the target and then repeat for all 5 footmen. That takes time and it's usually much more better to use the time to control the units and tell them whom to attack .
It's annoying because I feel that I'm wasting good spells by not using them and because the computer does use them against me, since he doesn't have the disadvantage of not being able to do several things at a time.

I could cast the spells before combat, but (a) Often I do not know when I'm going to be attacked beforehand; and (b) the duration could be too short.

Warcraft 3 introduced autocasting and subgroup selection, which really helped in this regard. I do not know how modern RTSs deal with this, since I haven't played many.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, many RTSs do have a pause time limit in multiplayer (even though it's not the kind of pause where you can issue orders).
Posted April 29, 2017
There are games that allow that, but only in single player. And I can imagine why - I believe that random pauses in multiplayer would be infuriating, and having a limit would mean that you would have to be able to play efficiently without it anyway.
An example of such game would be Dawn of War and Dawn of War 2 (in case of 2 - GfWL version of DoW2 and DoW2: Chaos Rising- they kind of broke it with transition to Steam and DoW2: Retribution had this feature removed).
Posted April 29, 2017
I can also see how people lose their concentration when a multi-player game pauses in the middle and then starts again without any warning. Think about the other(s) who have to wait for your pause to end with their whole body tense trying to be prepared to get back into action in milliseconds after time starts again. No thank you! Turn based better then. Personally I am starting to get too slow so need to use pause in single player or lower game speed or difficulty but that does not work in mp, does it now.

By all means, keep thinking up new game functions but sadly a lot of them will not be fun when tested.
Posted April 29, 2017
To make it less frustrating, I'd suggest changing it from fully pausing the game to going into slow-motion- enough to give players more time to react and activate abilities, but not bringing the game to a complete halt. Also, I'd have the limit timer be very short (maybe 10-20 seconds) and slowly refill while time is flowing. Again, enough time to fire off your strategy, but not to bog down the match.
Posted April 29, 2017
BlackMageJ's idea might work. Kind of need to test it for real.
Posted April 29, 2017
That's kind of how Creeper World games work. They are not MP though
Posted April 29, 2017
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BlackMageJ: To make it less frustrating, I'd suggest changing it from fully pausing the game to going into slow-motion- enough to give players more time to react and activate abilities, but not bringing the game to a complete halt. Also, I'd have the limit timer be very short (maybe 10-20 seconds) and slowly refill while time is flowing. Again, enough time to fire off your strategy, but not to bog down the match.
Basically like slowing things down in AOE or C&C, but more dynamic and with a timer?
Posted April 29, 2017
I used to pause the game all the time in Rise of Nations to give orders to units and research technologies or train units in buildings. It gave the game a Civilization feel (which was probably intentional).

That was single player. I never played multiplayer so I don't know how the pause was handled.
Post edited April 29, 2017 by Caesar.
Posted April 29, 2017
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dtgreene: I am curious about who would play this sort of game. Here is the sort of game I am referring to:

* Basic gameplay is that of a traditional RTS, where you build units and use them to gather materials that, in turn, allow you to build more units. There would, of course, be other elements typical of the RTS genre, including combat with opponent units (of course).
* You can pause the game. Furthermore, while the game is paused, you can issue orders to units, as well as building orders, which will be carried out when the game is unpaused.
* In order to make multiplayer not take too long, each player is given a pause time limit; if that time limit runs out, the game will unpause and that player loses the ability to pause for the rest of the game. In single player, this limit is infinite by default, while the default limit for multiplayer would be determined and adjusted as a result of playtesting. (We could, for example, start with a limit of 5 minutes per player, but playtesting may determine that 5 minutes is too much or too little.) The AI will never pause the game (it doesn't need to, and it doesn't make sense to annoy human players with unnecessary pauses, especially in single player).

Would you play a game like this? Also, has there been a game like this? (Games like Baldur's Gate don't count here, because while they could be considered RTS with pause, the games tend to be structured more like WRPGs and don't have you building new units or gathering resources; with that said, those games are partly where this idea comes from.) (I wouldn't play this sort of game, but then again, I have no interest in RTS games, so I wouldn't even be in the target audience.)
The now-ancient game called Global Conquest (by Dani Bunten), had (IIRC) a variety of timer-options for this hybrid turn-based/real-time strategy game.

Here's a description of the "Time Bar" in the game (from the manual - DL at link above). It may give an idea of the way turns are 'split-up':

Time Bar

To the left of and parallel to the Main Display is a vertical bar known as the "Time Bar." During the "Orders Phase" this bar is green. If another player ends his turn, this bar will change colors and begin to recede downward, signifying the imminent end of the "Orders Phase." Once the "Execution Phase" begins, the Time Bar will turn red and diminish as the "Execution Phase" runs out. At no time will the Time Bar serve drinks. Clicking the button in this area generates an <Alt><P> that pauses or resumes the game.
Not sure if t help you or not..

I don't care for the idea of 'if that time limit runs out, the game will unpause and that player loses the ability to pause for the rest of the game'. Something like that should be a configurable option. Maybe selectable options like 'loses pause for 0 turns / 1 turn / 5 turns / ...', etc.

What if someone had to go to the bathroom suddenly; or the baby spilled something? Seems a bit harse to punish the player 'for the rest of the game'. JMO.. :)
Posted April 29, 2017
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dtgreene:
How the fuck do you of all people play RTS games? The goal of them is to build up an army and use it to eliminate another army and we all know how you feel about competition, winners, losers, and elimination.

Chew me out for making a post about my partaking in competition and them make your own fucking thread about how you partake in competition. How dare you?

Guess it's do as I say not as I do, isn't it DT? :P

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/what_made_you_happy_today/post5433
Post edited April 29, 2017 by tinyE
Posted April 29, 2017
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dtgreene:
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tinyE: How [swear eliminated in quote] do you of all people play RTS games? The goal of them is to build up an army and use it to eliminate another army and we all know how you feel about competition, winners, losers, and elimination.
I never said I play RTS games; in fact, if you look at the first post carefully, I do not.

Also, I have already asked you to stop calling me that, and will start to report your posts for harassment if you continue. Furthermore, why the unnecessary swearing? (Simply removing the swear and the article proceeding it does not hurt the meaning of the sentence at all.)
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Community
General discussionWould you play this sort of RTS with pause?(19 posts)(19 posts)
(19 posts)