Cadaver747: Who knows?..

"..._PL, after you create a thread and start a discussion, other users assume that you are going to continue that discussion."

Breja: Look out, my previous post in which I "unmasked" the OP as Geralt got deleted by the mods :D Yep, I'm dead serious.

timppu: I played it back when it was a new thing.

Yes, it was technically quite a sight back then, quite believable yet smooth "3D" shooter game. A game that made you wonder "how the heck were they able to pull this off?".

Also the gameplay had some cool touches, at least at first. My friend, a big dog lover, was amazed (in a negative way) how you could also shoot dogs in the game, while I felt it was quite funny.

But quite soon its repetitive nature and bland maze levels and bland gameplay started to irk me. Also I didn't like how easy it was to get lost on many maps as everything looked the same, you were not sure if you were going the right way or back to the beginning, sometimes.

Later Doom, Ultima Underworld and Descent were much more successful in both amazing me technically, but also keeping me very interested in the gameplay, all the way to the end. I played those three games from start to finish, forgetting any other games even existed while I was playing them... while for Wolf3D, I am unsure if I even finished it, probably I dropped it at some point when I had become bored of it.

timppu: Judging by the creation date and low reputation, I presume he has just asked GOG support to change his nick. Not a new account.

timppu: I think it has aged more poorly than e.g. Doom... but Doom has also aged badly IMHO. I loved Doom to the bits and replayed it start to finish multiple times, and also played lots of user-made WADs... but nowadays I just feel its gameplay is too simplistic (too) and the controls are just bad.

I did like one of those Doom "3D polygonal" engine updates with mouselook etc., they made the gameplay much more modern... but still I felt the gameplay today is too simplistic.

Ultima Underworld has aged somewhat better, but it has poor controls too (even poorer than Doom or Wold3D). But at least it has a deeper gameplay and a great atmosphere.

System Shock has otherwise aged quite well... but like with Ultima Underworld, the original controls are quite bad today. LUCKILY, the current version of System Shock has much better controls (mouselook etc.), making the game much more enjoyable to play.

Descent (and Descent 2)... now, those I feel have aged quite well. I'd enjoy playing them even today. Even the controls are great.

MarkoH01: Could somebody tell me why this is not deemed to be offensive ... I mean - some said that there are some Germans (well hidden) here in the forum as well and also, like I said before - setting regular Germans and Nazis on the same level ... quite offensive. Hello? Mods?

Jon_Irenicus_PL: So in your opinion what is the pinnacle of shooters?
How do you believe the original substance of Wolf 3D needs to be improved on?
Do you believe it needs total reworking, or a refurbishment?

Jon_Irenicus_PL: I was busy

Jon_Irenicus_PL: Say, let's compare the game to Call of Duty. IMHO Wolfenstein leads the comparison because its structure and atmosphere is so much more consistent.

Judicat0r: Actually NDS ran out of money, backer's money, because they did spend 1.2M$ on a concept of a System Shock REBOOT in order to find a publisher to pitch it to and willing to finance its development.

The publisher said "no thanks" and they/him found they've basically spent 1.2M$ in poor choices like engine switch, early development and lot of concept art nobody asked for.

To be honest is something not new in the software business: you have an idea, you invest money in it to make a working prototype to pitch to a publisher, it can go well or it can go south but that's not an exxcuse.

The problem here is that Mr Kick thought that asking our opinion or, at the very least, keeping us informed was superfluous, instead kept following his attitude of ignoring backers on kickstarter to follow his idea of trying to turn a remake into something else with us totally unaware of that for months.

Then he had to confess and declare that the development was put on hold in order to define a strategy, after a 4 or 5 months hiatus the development restarted.
Is slowly crawling forward since then with montlhy updates showing this or that piece of concept art, doors, guns environment, monsters.
Has to be said that Mr. Kick took full responsibility for the f*ckup and assured us the game would be financed in house and come out eventually.

That is only the tip of the iceberg because the campaign was mismanaged all along, and many of us purists of the game were left "unhappy" with the direction of the development.
During the KS campaign it became clearer and clearer that Mr. Kick didn't know much about the game, I'm not even sure he ever played it, and the idea behind the nice words was to basically make a System Shock with System Shock 2 feeling: interface, controls, some mechanics and economy, modular weapons and modular monsters: literally blasphemy to whoever played, loved and understand what System Shock is.

And that's basically it in a nutshell, I have so much to say about this whole mess but is not the time and the place to do that.

Jon_Irenicus_PL: Why is it that 30 years since release, Wolfenstein 3D still stands uncontested among shooter games?

What do you think made Wolfenstein 3D so great?

Personally, i think its simplicity makes it so appealing. There is little to no logic, no story, no real explanation as to what in the hell is going on. Your job is to kill some Germans, and that's what you want to do.

And yet, the game isn't DUMB. Seeing the rooms placated with swastikas and Nazi portraits makes me sick. There is one thought, one uninterrupted drive, a single unified impulse - kill the Gerrmans. They are the ones who caused. They are responsible for the suffering of millions. It's them who engaged the whole of Europe in war. They deserve to be deprived of vital functions.

So to me, Wolfenstein 3D personifies everything that makes the genre interesting. No alien supernatural bs, no MTX - kill the Germans, the only purpose, the only bullet point, the only destination in the gaming experience. But in such simplicity, eternal greatness shines through.

I am pretty sure that 100 years on, Wolfenstein 3D will be treated like Divine Comedy, or Moby Dicks - an eternal masterpiece that simply can't be matched, for the formula has been exhausted to perfection - there is no room for improvement.

It's sad for gaming and shooters that they were all made irrelevant so soon by a masterpiece. Kind of like Baldur's Gate 2 makes every other RPG game look like English draughts by comparison.

Jon_Irenicus_PL:

Jon_Irenicus_PL: So in your opinion what is the pinnacle of shooters?

Jon_Irenicus_PL: How do you believe the original substance of Wolf 3D needs to be improved on?

Jon_Irenicus_PL: Do you believe it needs total reworking, or a refurbishment?

Jon_Irenicus_PL: Say, let's compare the game to Call of Duty. IMHO Wolfenstein leads the comparison because its structure and atmosphere is so much more consistent.

IwubCheeze: Speaking of which, Night Dive sure it taking their time with the remake. Or abandoned it. I swear it's been "coming soon" for years now.

Fender_178: Well Wolf3d started the FPS genre so to speak which lead to Doom being released which took what Wolf3d started and improved it tenfold and Quake took the stuff from Doom and really improved upon it. If it weren't for Wolf3d then We wouldn't have Doom or any other FPS that we have today and that is why the game is highly regarded.

Jon_Irenicus_PL: Why is it that 30 years since release, Wolfenstein 3D still stands uncontested among shooter games?

Lord_Kane: Please start a thread! I didnt back the game so I never knew this. I want to hear more about this.

Fender_178: Well Wolf3d started the FPS genre so to speak which lead to Doom being released which took what Wolf3d started and improved it tenfold and Quake took the stuff from Doom and really improved upon it. If it weren't for Wolf3d then We wouldn't have Doom or any other FPS that we have today and that is why the game is highly regarded.

Judicat0r: Don't know man, if someone starts a thread we can discuss the story so far and the status of the game but creating one just to bring up that stuff, I don't know, sure as hell he f*ucked up so bad that many lost hteir trust in him and NDS an went for a boycotting instead.

ariaspi: I don't know if it was gog staff, mods

Judicat0r: *snip*

fronzelneekburm: Gog staff *ARE* the mods. Moderators are literally support drones doing part-time work janitizing the forums. Which is why I always get rather annoyed whenever one of them locks a thread that casts an unfavorable light on the current state of support on gog.

Crosmando: Wait, are you seriously implying that these "janitors" don't get paid....