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http://kotaku.com/the-witcher-3-leaks-early-beware-spoilers-1703231740

They should have done the same thing to the console versions at least to lock them out until release day.
Post edited May 09, 2015 by MikeMaximus
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MikeMaximus: http://kotaku.com/the-witcher-3-leaks-early-beware-spoilers-1703231740

They should have done the same thing to the console versions at least to lock them out until release day.
Makes it even dumber that they even bothered with something so hypocritical.
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darkness58ec: Deciding who will be able to use the software, when, and how is digital rights management.

What you described is DRM. But who cares? Its good DRM. We all agree that game devs should be allowed to release games on specific days. I am not so much of an ideologue that I need to call it something besides DRM in order to approve of it.

Excellent explanation, btw. It clarified my thinking on this topic.
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paladin181: The point isn't that it is an ok DRM, but rather that DRM-Free doesn't mean DRM free. You can't advertise as a DRM free company and then say: "Except when we feel it's necessary to protect our IP"
I guess they should release all their games for free then?

I think GOG's platform is not "NO DRM EVER." Rather, I think their platform is "NO DRM WHEN YOU OWN THE GAME." Apparently, consistent with what you are saying, they would have to give the games away for free for there to truly be no drm.
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darkness58ec: I think GOG's platform is not "NO DRM EVER." Rather, I think their platform is "NO DRM WHEN YOU OWN THE GAME."
Like when you come home with the box and put the DVD in the tray?

I don't quite think that description fits the situation.
Great job with this release. The console versions are already out there, and Xbox collector's editions have extras including a cloth map that morons like me that have supported this game from the very beginning on PC won't be given, really makes me glad to support you.
The way I see it, the pre-ordered and pre-delivered retail version is incomplete. They require you to download (or otherwise obtain) the missing part before you have obtained the full game. Beyond that point though (everything is delivered to you, partly on a DVD and partly with a small download), you have the full product and are independent of any accounts or internet connection, no matter how many times you install it on different computers.

The purpose is the same as with DRM (control whether you can use the product, in this case not play it before the official publish date), but it happens only once when you obtain the game, and after the official publish date (when you obtain the missing part), the DRM(?) vanishes from your purchased product. The digital GOG version uses basically the same tactic, by the way.

Arguing whether this is DRM is akin to arguing that the GOG account in itself is DRM, even for all GOG games. The argument whether keeping the delivery of your product (but not installation nor playing) behind an online account is DRM. Same goes to the delivery of DLCs and patches.

So the definition for DRM-free for single-player games: "Can I install and play it on my PC in a bunker years from now, without having to go online etc."... yes you can, after you have obtained the full game. Too bad the pre-order retail DVD alone isn't that, you have to download or obtain the remaining part elsewhere once.


EDIT: To approach the question differently: let's say someone sells a retail game in a box, but you only find a GOG code inside the box (just like with some retail games you find only a Steam code inside).

Is that game a DRM, or DRM-free, game? Yes, you need an online account once to receive the goods, does that alone make it DRM?

Maybe the question really isn't whether the pre-order retail version is DRM-free or not, but whether it is fully a (physical) retail version or not. You have to obtain part of its content online, so maybe it isn't fully what many expect from a retail game. Just like they expect it not to be a box containing only a GOG code.
Post edited May 10, 2015 by timppu
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Fearlessjay: Great job with this release. The console versions are already out there, and Xbox collector's editions have extras including a cloth map that morons like me that have supported this game from the very beginning on PC won't be given, really makes me glad to support you.
Yup I know the feeling. :(
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ThermioN: Any news if the version sold on gog.com also has this kind of "DRM" (sorry, I did not read every single post)
Yes, the preloaded GOG version is similarly incomplete, and will receive the missing part only on the official publish date. And indeedy you need a GOG account to download that missing part.

Again, whether you really consider that as DRM... (I don't).
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timppu: The way I see it, the pre-ordered and pre-delivered retail version is incomplete. They require you to download (or otherwise obtain) the missing part before you have obtained the full game. Beyond that point though (everything is delivered to you, partly on a DVD and partly with a small download), you have the full product and are independent of any accounts or internet connection, no matter how many times you install it on different computers.

The purpose is the same as with DRM (control whether you can use the product, in this case not play it before the official publish date), but it happens only once when you obtain the game, and after the official publish date (when you obtain the missing part), the DRM(?) vanishes from your purchased product. The digital GOG version uses basically the same tactic, by the way.

Arguing whether this is DRM is akin to arguing that the GOG account in itself is DRM, even for all GOG games. The argument whether keeping the delivery of your product (but not installation nor playing) behind an online account is DRM. Same goes to the delivery of DLCs and patches.

So the definition for DRM-free for single-player games: "Can I install and play it on my PC in a bunker years from now, without having to go online etc."... yes you can, after you have obtained the full game. Too bad the pre-order retail DVD alone isn't that, you have to download or obtain the remaining part elsewhere once.

EDIT: To approach the question differently: let's say someone sells a retail game in a box, but you only find a GOG code inside the box (just like with some retail games you find only a Steam code inside).

Is that game a DRM, or DRM-free, game? Yes, you need an online account once to receive the goods, does that alone make it DRM?

Maybe the question really isn't whether the pre-order retail version is DRM-free or not, but whether it is fully a (physical) retail version or not. You have to obtain part of its content online, so maybe it isn't fully what many expect from a retail game. Just like they expect it not to be a box containing only a GOG code.
To me it's clearly DRM, pre-release DRM. Largely absolved by the notion that you'll be able to make it kinda/sort drm free by backing up the required files (sucks for a retail version imo, you want to plug and play, not plug and manually patch patch and play)

Personally, I completely understand *why* they are doing it. Even though it was made into a half wasted effort with the console versions still leaking, however I think the issue rather is that CDP/GOG are the ones doing it.

Here's a quote from them from a while ago which, to me at least, feels apt for this situation.

Each time we are thinking about a decision, the first rule is we have to treat gamers like we’d like to be treated. We don’t believe in DRM because we hate DRM. It also doesn’t protect, not really. Games are cracked in minutes, hours or days, but they’re always cracked. If you want to pirate you’ll find a way. But if you’re a committed gamer and are buying the game why should we place a barrier on you?
And I personally think the DRM question is going to depend on whether there'll be standalone patches to download, and possibly available elsewhere, though it doesn't sound like it, since they specifically said they linked support/dlc/patches to their GOG service to counter piracy. And requiring an account to patch your game sounds like a barrier to me, same as Stardock Sins which did the same thing didn't seem truly DRM-Free to me either.
Post edited May 10, 2015 by Pheace
I'm kind of 50/50 on this... on one hand I can see how this could be considered DRM, but after the small download the game is effectively DRM free. Also considering they provide a GOG copy which we know will be a 100% percent DRM free, I kind of don't consider this that bad honestly. I get why CDPR is doing this though.

The problem with DRM itself is never been that it's DRM... it's that it hinders the paying consumer long after release because developers never remove it. So I agree with Timppu, As long as I can play the game indefinitely without restriction after obtaining the full game then yes it's technically still DRM free.

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Pheace: And I personally think the DRM question is going to depend on whether there'll be standalone patches to download, and possibly available elsewhere, though it doesn't sound like it, since they specifically said they linked support/dlc/patches to their GOG service to counter piracy.
Considering patches are a service that you are being provided by developers for buying a game, I don't see how they can fall in the realm of DRM... they have nothing to do with actual restrictions being placed on the physical product.

I think their handling that a good way honestly, legal purchases get actual support.
Post edited May 10, 2015 by BKGaming
It's too bad they decided to go with the DRM scheme ('small' as it may be - it is DRM).

For those that like to pull an old game out of the pile years from now (possibly several computers later), they'll always have to hope that the 'small download' is still easily available. One of the ideas of DRM-free is to NOT have that as a potential worry.

I guess if you're a 'I really only care about whatever is latest at the time' type then this isn't any real issue - but my guess is that MANY are not that 'type' (particularly here) and IMO this sucks for those folks.
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jamyskis: ...
That's why I'll probably be waiting for the second wave pressing.
do i get it right? you're going to get a pc version of tw3??

after all that inconsistent stuff you preached here about the greatness and advancements of ps4 games?
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Martek: It's too bad they decided to go with the DRM scheme ('small' as it may be - it is DRM).

For those that like to pull an old game out of the pile years from now (possibly several computers later), they'll always have to hope that the 'small download' is still easily available. One of the ideas of DRM-free is to NOT have that as a potential worry.

I guess if you're a 'I really only care about whatever is latest at the time' type then this isn't any real issue - but my guess is that MANY are not that 'type' (particularly here) and IMO this sucks for those folks.
It's not like they couldn't keep that small file backed up with their game and they do get a DRM free copy from GOG... so, its not all bad.
Post edited May 10, 2015 by BKGaming
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BKGaming: It's not like they couldn't keep that small file backed up with their game
Small files have a tendency to be lost over time, though. For example, there's a small tool someone created for Witcher 2 that allows players to restore their Insane saves should they die while the tool is running, and the only links that still exist for it seem to be the ones I've personally uploaded. It's not unreasonable to assume that the unlock file will eventually be equally difficult to find, especially once later prints of the game come out and its importance is forgotten by most.

If you want an even more comparable example, try finding the standalone DLC installers for early versions of the second game (mage's trousers, blue stripes combat jacket, etcetera). These were included in later patches, so the standalone installers disappeared, meaning playing with those items on an earlier version of the game is nigh-impossible. Now imagine that those DLCs are required for the game to actually function.
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apehater: do i get it right? you're going to get a pc version of tw3??

after all that inconsistent stuff you preached here about the greatness and advancements of ps4 games?
How about you consider just WHY I'm getting the PC version this time around?
Post edited May 10, 2015 by jamyskis