I support this message.

I don't see the problem with this as ZFR is going to be the NK on N1, obviously (I'm sure he'll find a way to get murdered even if he is scum).

omg you're right. My meme game is not what it once was...

...

Oy. This setup looks like a lot of fun and I'm glad to see the return of players from yesteryear like Flub and Hunter. With all of this I guess I can't pass the opportunity to watch this game.
I wonder if I should be on the observers' or join as possible replacement like in the last game. (Well, you already have Bler for a replacement... so maybe...)

Anyway, I have a lot of questions about your roles list. Please clarify those you want.

A) Cumulative Shelterer: When someone is sent to the shelter is that information made public? Not just that "someone was sent to the shelter", but who that person is?

II) What do you mean by "find a kill-target"? I suppose you meant if they target someone in the same night the target is attacked their action resolves first, jailing them (including blocking the target's own action but stopping the NK - unless strongman). Is that right?

3) A Genderbender's action is secret, communicated to the target or made public?

iiii) Does a Crazy Inventor chooses which gadget they're going to build? If so, when should that decision be communicated to you? The night before? The same night?

V) If an infector targets someone, does that player knows it? And if the medic is infected does that mean the infector has free reigns to attack anyone or is the medic immune to infection? (I assume they must have taken a vaccine, of course.)
What happens if both the medic and infector target the same player in the same night? Is the infection attempt nullified or the medic has to stop an ongoing infection (next night onwards)?

6) I don't like six so I'll skip to

7) Power Thief. More of an observation, really. With this amount of players, the supposed duration of the game might not go much further than D3. If they need an unused power to win, they have an extremely low chance of using a power at all. Even if they're first targeted on N1 they'd probably keep from using their stolen power, no matter how useful it is, to stand a fair chance of getting to the last day with a power (made even worse by the fact that there is a role that removes powers from other players). I recommend changing that win condition somehow.
Also, are they stealing or copying powers?

Answers:

A) No information is made public when someone is sheltered. The first Night the Shelter is indistinguishable from a Jail. The only difference is, that the person that is Sheltered is told that they are. They aren't targetable and can't do anything at Night. If the Shelterer shelters another person in the second Night, both sheltered persons get access to a Night Chat. Both can target each other, if they choose to. But they can't target anyone outside the Shelter (unless they have Day Actions).

a) Question for discussion: upon reflection I noticed that this role is potentially game breaking. So I might alter it. What do you think of a Shelterer that can shelter an arbitrary number of players each Night - but not the same players in two consecutive Nights? That would increase the danger that Scum might get into the Shelter.
aa) Or I remove the Shelterer completely and replace him by a regular Jailer. Tell me what you all think of this role.

II) The FBI-Profiler does profiles of neutral killers and their intended targets, if there are any. So for example if there is a Lyncher, the Lyncher usually has a target, the Lynchee. If the Profiler investigates a Lyncher, he gets the result 'guilty'. If he investigates the Lynchee, he gets the result 'potential target' or 'endagered'. The same is valid if there is any other kind of killer that has a fixed target.

3) The Genderbender's action is communicated to the Target. I think one notices when one's body suddenly changes!

D) The Crazy Inventor just tells me at the start of the Night, what he wants to do. Any standard Night Action. ... Then I tell him what happens at the end of the Night. So basically the CI is a JOAT with access to all standard actions. But without the guarantee that they will work. But if he tries to use a Vigilante shot (or any other killing power) he risks dying himself instead.

5) An infected target is told that they don't feel well and can't use any powers. The medic is immune to infection. If medic and infector target the same target, the Medic wins. I.e. nothing happens to the target.

VII) You're right. Let's change the Power Thief to: permanently steals a power and has to have a power by the end of the game. So they need to make sure that a power is used on them at least once.
And we could make the victim of the theft a secondary Power Thief. I.e. same mechanic, but no alteration of the factional win condition.


So, where do I put you? Player? Nomad? Or Scientist?

Is the Crazy Inventor's success decided by a random roll? Or do you make the decision?

It's random and the more powerful a power is the less likely it will succeed. For example an attempt at Tracking or Watching someone will have a higher chance of success than an attempt at Cop-ing someone. I have a list of percentages, but I won't reveal them pre-game.

OK, thanks.

To be honest I'm not the biggest fan of random-based roles. Especially given the low number of Nights. And more especially if you can't even know a ballpark figure. Is the chance to succeed 25%? 10%? 1%?

But it's role-madness so it could be fun.

A few more observations

The shelterer might be gamebreaking indeed... I'm not sure I like the alternative that takes multiple players in the same night more than the original. It would make it very easy to figure out a killer from among the survivors after scum strikes in a subgroup inside/outside the shelter.
It's also complicated if an investigative role gets locked with a scum. They have no one else to use their investigation on, they're bound to investigate the only other player in there. Bang, scum is caught AND a townie confirmed to boot.

Ah so the profiler is a counter to a lyncher. Yes, that could work, it just doesn't look like a very useful or powerful role. BUT anyway you kinda should alter the profiler's win condition. After all, if they're just a regular townie they have no incentive to stop the lyncher. It doesn't help them win.

I like all the rest of your explanations and changes. Power thief looks interesting now, but you should be careful that they shouldn't be able to steal some powers from scum. Also to think about resolution of what happens if they're targeted by more than one PR during a night they're powerless.

And I suppose I'm a scientist after all. Who wouldn't want to prod and poke those poor hapless creatures known as players? All in the name of science of course ;-)

10000000%???

Just sent you a friend request OP, that way I can PM you(and vice versa) when the game starts...so you can send role PM, etc.

Hm. You're right. I'll have to scrap or significantly nerf the Shelterer.
We could make him a Jailer/Neighborizer hybrid. He jails someone for one Night, as a normal Jailer does, but the people he jailed are added to a Neighborhood. That means, they can Night-chat in the following Nights.
However, this would make the Shelterer effectively confirmed by N2, when there are two persons who have a Nightchat and he can name them when claiming. The only way around that would be to make his alignment random.

Which would be good, because if I remove the Shelterer, the Sewer Ghul becomes moot. Since that is a role specifically to counter the Shelterer. So the new and nerfed Shelterer might be Scum himself!

Any idea for another fun scum role?


Well, intermediate power level roles (Tracker, Watcher) will have an about 50% chance of success. Powerful roles will have lower chances. Fluff roles like Fruit Vendor will have an almost 100% chance of success. Gamebreaking or other non-normal roles will have a 0% chance.

OK, that at least gives a rough idea

I had an idea for a scum role to replace the Sewer Ghul: a Telepath. As long as he's alive, Scum have a Day-Chat. When he dies, so does the Day-Chat.

We could also throw in a Sniper: someone who can kill without being at the spot of the kill. I.e. the Sniper doesn't leave DNA-traces. But it will be visible that the target was sniped.

All these are only possible roles. Not necessarily present in the game.