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General discussionStar Trek rips off indie developer.(46 posts)(46 posts)
(46 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 25, 2017
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Breja: Sorry, it's a one-man turtle.
Wait, what sex is the turtle?

And where are the elephants?
Posted October 25, 2017
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tinyE: And OT, I am confused by the Tardigrades thing too. It's an animal right? Do how do you copyright the term? And isn't that term something that was already used in Star Trek AND the name of the game? I am so lost here. :P
I did some research. Apparently the tardigrades gained some notoriety after being featured in a science TV show a few years ago. What raised alarms was the fact that in both the indie game and in Discovery the tardigrade is the key to an instantenous space travel method. I would have needed to play the game to judge it, but the creator of the game made them look extremely similar in his blog post.

Another matter were the accusations about the skin color or sexual orientation of some characters, which are ridiculous and do more harm than good to the indie developer's claims.
Posted October 25, 2017
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clarry: Goodness gracious.

So if I make a movie with flying castles (or spacefaring giant sized dogs) and homosexual black crew members, I'm probably ripping off some poor indie developer out somewhere. Thankfully ideas (stupid or not) aren't copyrightable. Sucks to be them eh?
Ideas are not copyrighted, but the unique execution of an idea is. Which actually is the case here since they actually copied scenes from the game and so on.
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tinyE: And OT, I am confused by the Tardigrades thing too. It's an animal right? Do how do you copyright the term? And isn't that term something that was already used in Star Trek AND the name of the game? I am so lost here. :P
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Caesar.: I did some research. Apparently the tardigrades gained some notoriety after being featured in a science TV show a few years ago. What raised alarms was the fact that in both the indie game and in Discovery the tardigrade is the key to an instantenous space travel method. I would have needed to play the game to judge it, but the creator of the game made them look extremely similar in his blog post.

Another matter were the accusations about the skin color or sexual orientation of some characters, which are ridiculous and do more harm than good to the indie developer's claims.
I think he added the comparison to add weight to the other things that were "strikingly similar". It paints a broader picture in conjunction with the rest of the stuff they ripped off. By the looks of things they ripped off the whole damn thing.
Post edited October 25, 2017 by Stig79
Posted October 25, 2017
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tinyE: And OT, I am confused by the Tardigrades thing too. It's an animal right? Do how do you copyright the term? And isn't that term something that was already used in Star Trek AND the name of the game? I am so lost here. :P
Tardigrades are a real thing, also known as water bears. Depends on what you class an animal really, they are 0.5mm long. They are famous for being nearly invincible.

The issue seems to arise here because the game and Star Trek because they are being used as means of interstellar travel in both. (which as far as I'm aware of they are not capable of doing)
Posted October 25, 2017
Edit: Shit, it's this thread. Nevermind, I wasn't here.
Post edited October 25, 2017 by Breja
Posted October 25, 2017
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Stig79: Ideas are not copyrighted, but the unique execution of an idea is. Which actually is the case here since they actually copied scenes from the game and so on.
If that is the case, then the blog post should point it out, with concrete examples. It doesn't.

I see a couple different scenes. Both have a lot of blue in them. Some kind of blue force field thing. Standard scifi fare. Apart from the colour and the scifi thing, I can't tell what's actually happening in each scene, but they don't look the same at all. In one, a guy is floating in this shit, with a bored expression like he's not really there. In the other, it looks like the guy inside is screaming in pain. Maybe imprisoned and tortured somehow. If I were bored, I could dig out plenty of similar scenes across games and movies alike. How about Bob Page in his blue forcefield cage at the end of Deus Ex?

Then there's the tardigrade scene. It might be copied or not. If both parties came with the idea of using them for space travel, well, we should expect to see them used for space travel. Even if the idea were "stolen" (I don't believe in stealing of ideas), the scene is likely to end up with some similarities. A big animal thingie vanishes into space. Because that's the whole point! Space travel with water bears! Yes, it will look similar. That doesn't mean the scene is copied.

Even so, copyright falls on works, not scenes. You take a photo of a pretty sunset with the golden gate in the background. That's your copyright. Someone else can shoot the same scene and that's their photo. Or how about this: guy shoots another guy in the face. Pick any action movie. A couple goes to a wedding. We can find countless more or less identical scenes with the same exact idea. Yet they are original works unless one party literally took the film (or a reproduction of it in another medium) from the other party and copied it.

I don't see the big issue here. It doesn't matter if both works have a black lady and a homo couple and a guy with some beard. But it's worth pointing out that most scifi, and indeed most works of fiction in general build upon countless other ideas that were introduced into the culture by yet other works. That's just how it works. If people didn't copy ideas -- be it magic, dragons, goblins, space craft with laser turrets or whatever -- they'd have to come up with all original ideas and the world for each work of fiction would feel extremely alien and hard to relate to. We want things that we can understand and relate to without spending hours and hours getting an explanation to everything.

So if they really borrowed the tardigrade concept from a less known indie game, that's really cool. The game developer should be flattered.
Post edited October 25, 2017 by clarry
Posted October 26, 2017
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clarry: So if they really borrowed the tardigrade concept from a less known indie game, that's really cool. The game developer should be flattered.
...and cash in on the similarities. Which they do with this 'outcry'. As I pointed out, it's just free PR, nothing more. I had never heard about this game before and I'm sure that's the case for many other people too.
Posted October 26, 2017
The developer didn't even frame his plight as an accusation at first, it seems he was just irked by the fact that releasing his game after the new Star Trek would make HIM look like a plagiarist, something he can definitely prove is not true. Sadly, in the meantime, he has linked to a video by that little blue skull guy on youtube, a well paid serial liar who caters to "free speech activists" (with respect to Breja, I'm not saying out loud what that means).

In short, the developer has gone from reasonable regret to full scale accusation via alt-right proxy.

The idea that tardigrades can survive in space has been prominently disseminated via news outlets since at least September 2007, when the ESA conducted their "Tardigrades in space" (TARDIS) experiment. To think sci-fi authors wouldn't be inspired is foolish. I found quite a few authors who used the idea in their works well before the announcement of the "Tardigrades" game in 2014. So who sues whom now? No one sues no one, that's what is going to happen. Because disregarding the tardigrade travel twist, all the game developer is doing is to scream "but they also have a diverse crew, a gay couple and a black woman but but but mine isn't the main character, I have this blonde white guy!".

With an equally convincing justification, we could rename the thread "Tardigrades developer rips off Doctor Who episode The Beast Below". And let's be honest y'all, if the Tardigrades game released on GOG, there'd be fuck all this pixel art bullcrap people aplenty. There's no concern for the rights of the developer here. His bogus story is interesting as long as outrage can be manufactured against the cast and crew of a new iteration of Social Justice the Actual Series.

Until the next iteration of "Stig makes a thread"!
Post edited October 26, 2017 by Vainamoinen
Posted October 26, 2017
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Vainamoinen: The idea that tardigrades can survive in space has been prominently disseminated via news outlets since at least September 2007, when the ESA conducted their "Tardigrades in space" (TARDIS) experiment. To think sci-fi authors wouldn't be inspired is foolish. I found quite a few authors who used the idea in their works well before the announcement of the "Tardigrades" game in 2014. So who sues whom now? No one sues no one, that's what is going to happen. Because disregarding the tardigrade travel twist, all the game developer is doing is to scream "but they also have a diverse crew, a gay couple and a black woman but but but mine isn't the main character, I have this blonde white guy!".
I was thinking exactly this. Tardigrades are one of the very few, if not the only animal we know of that can survive in space - even if it's for a limited time. They are, in fact, the most resilient species we know of and one that has avoided every single mass extinction this planet has gone through. Therefore, if you wanted to come up with an animal that helps you travel through space it's only the logical choice unless you feel like creating your own 100% original, probably tentacled, space monster.

My internet here sucks so I haven't seen the video things, but the explanation behind them could well mark them as different. As somebody else pointed out, floating blue stuff (in STD - wow, what a horrible acronym for the series - it's fungus, dunno what it is in the Tardigrade game) is pretty standard.

As for the characters, that's absurd. You can't claim copyright on black female heroine and homosexual couple, particularly in 2017 where you can find at least the latter pretty much everywhere. Even the blond guy/bearded guy pairing isn't something you can say they ripped off from you. Even if this guy has a point, this part only makes all of his claims seem ridiculous.
Posted October 27, 2017
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Stig79: Saw this thing today, so I figured I'd post a thread about it. It deserves awareness, really. Like many gamers on this site I sympathize a lot with indie developers. Indie games are usually where you find new ideas and the creativity the AA companies lack.

The new Star Trek show has completely stolen plot points, lore, characters and even scenes from an indie adventure game. Had it been one or two things, you could chalk it up as coincidence, sure. But this is pretty much the whole thing.

Feel free to spread the news. This is just wrong.

http://anas-tronaut.blogspot.no/2017/10/star-trek-discovery-tardigrades.html
Calm down, and think of all the men, woman and children who lives happily without knowing about such thievery.

Nothing is "original" and our own ideas are a remix from what has come before. Nothing new there.

However, unless you were rude, deleting your comment is not a good sign.
Post edited October 27, 2017 by sanscript
Posted October 27, 2017
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Tizzysawr: I was thinking exactly this. Tardigrades are one of the very few, if not the only animal we know of that can survive in space - even if it's for a limited time. They are, in fact, the most resilient species we know of and one that has avoided every single mass extinction this planet has gone through. Therefore, if you wanted to come up with an animal that helps you travel through space it's only the logical choice unless you feel like creating your own 100% original, probably tentacled, space monster.

My internet here sucks so I haven't seen the video things, but the explanation behind them could well mark them as different. As somebody else pointed out, floating blue stuff (in STD - wow, what a horrible acronym for the series - it's fungus, dunno what it is in the Tardigrade game) is pretty standard.

As for the characters, that's absurd. You can't claim copyright on black female heroine and homosexual couple, particularly in 2017 where you can find at least the latter pretty much everywhere. Even the blond guy/bearded guy pairing isn't something you can say they ripped off from you. Even if this guy has a point, this part only makes all of his claims seem ridiculous.
Good points all around. The developer's design choices are only similar where stereotypical. Evidently he was trying to establish a feeling rather similar to the Star Trek experience, his setting certainly looks like it (and kudos for doing that). Yet now he acts as if he has a copyright on African American women on board a space ship, it's embarrassing. Are the Star Trek peeps going to sue him for having an Uhura? And that's what she is, she's not a Michael Burnham by a long shot. His "Yolanda" is a "Communications Engineer". She is a literal fucking Uhura ripoff, or at the very least strong reminiscence.

Tardigrades are a Sci-Fi trope or, at the very least, have become a trope during the last 10 years. The only actually halfway striking similarity the guy has to show is that his Tardigrades travel through space in a mysterious way.

Star Trek Discovery does that too, but – SPOILER – what it means for the narrative is considerably more sophisticated. Apparently the tardigrades in the game hug the protagonist and beam themselves to another location. Errrr. Okay. That's awkward. In Discovery, giant tardigrades act as navigators in ridiculously fast space travel, as they have the map of the galaxy in their DNA so to speak. That's quite a fascinating idea, to be honest. However, the ethical concerns with using tardigrades in that way weigh so heavily in the show that I'd almost assume we won't get to see any tardigrade in the show again. They've declared that they're killing the tardigrades that way, so they set the one they had free. In short, one tardigrade likely made a three episode stint and that was it. If they make the Klingon war entirely about "Save the Tardigrades", I shall be very annoyed. :)

Oh, and I've watched several videos of little blue skull guy, they were all time of my life that I won't get back. As a basis for discussion, they're completely useless. The guy is quite aware that he's lying out of his throat, he's being paid well for exactly that, and sometimes he just throws the same lie repeatedly to his supporters with a literal wink. You can watch this thing and then spend hours researching the topic proper so you can point out the falsehoods. No need to waste your time. Research the topic properly first. Sometimes, you have to pray for shitty internet. :P
Post edited October 27, 2017 by Vainamoinen
Posted October 27, 2017
Wait a sec... in Alien: Covenant (MINOR SPOILERS), isn´t there an astronaut who gets a blue colored hologram message while he is in space? And isn´t there a gay couple, one of them with a beard?
What´s going on here? Some strange conspiracy? Or a fail in the matrix?
Posted October 27, 2017
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Vainamoinen: Tardigrades are a Sci-Fi trope or, at the very least, have become a trope during the last 10 years. The only actually halfway striking similarity the guy has to show is that his Tardigrades travel through space in a mysterious way.
You underestimate the stupidity of copyright laws. That's enough for a victory in court. Harlan Ellison won with a lot less against the Terminator. Or White Wolf vs Sony for Underworld. If this goes anywhere near a court, CBS will pay to settle it before a trial.
Post edited October 27, 2017 by tremere110
Posted October 27, 2017
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Vainamoinen: Tardigrades are a Sci-Fi trope or, at the very least, have become a trope during the last 10 years. The only actually halfway striking similarity the guy has to show is that his Tardigrades travel through space in a mysterious way.
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tremere110: You underestimate the stupidity of copyright laws. That's enough for a victory in court. Harlan Ellison won with a lot less against the Terminator. If this goes anywhere near a court, CBS will pay to settle it before a trial.
Remember when they tried to sue John Fogerty for ripping off the song "Run Through the Jungle" with his song "The Old Man in the Road"?
Posted October 27, 2017
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tremere110: You underestimate the stupidity of copyright laws. That's enough for a victory in court. Harlan Ellison won with a lot less against the Terminator. Or White Wolf vs Sony for Underworld. If this goes anywhere near a court, CBS will pay to settle it before a trial.
I wholly agree about the stupidity of copyright laws, but have full trust in the plutocratic nature of the American justice system.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionStar Trek rips off indie developer.(46 posts)(46 posts)
(46 posts)