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Join a fallen hero who is reincarnated 100 years after being defeated by the Overlord of Darkness. Saviors of Sapphire Wings / Stranger of Sword City Revisited is now available on GOG.COM! Assemble your party, develop your own playstyle, and exploit your enemies' elemental weaknesses to overcome the most powerful servants of darkness.

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dtgreene: One interesting thing to look at is how equipment that casts spells when used as an item is handled:

In Wizardry 1-5, when you use an item it has a chance of breaking, which changes the item into a different item or makes it disappear entirely. Usually, a used item becomes a "broken item" earlier in the series, but you later see it being used in a trolly manner (item breaks into a different item that has the same name), or having magical items change into non-magical items of the same type. There is no way to reverse this.

In Elminage Gothic, items have a chance of breaking when used. A broken item is still of the same type, but is no longer functional and can't be used as an item instead. You can repair items in town for a significant cost, or there's an Alchemist spell (5th level IIRC) that will fix all broken items.

In Stranger of Sword City, items have a chance of becoming cursed when used. Such items are non-functional, but the curse is automatically removed for free when you return to town. There's also an item that can remove curses, and it's sold in the shop in infinite quantities (at least in Revisited) (which isn't usually the case for buyable items in this game), though I haven't tried it myself yet.

Another point of comparison:
* In Wizardry 1-5, Bard's Tale 1-3 (classic), and Elminage Gothic, each character has a separate inventory.
* In Stranger of Sword City, you instead have a shared inventory; this is also seen in Bard's Tale Trilogy Remastered (except with a certain Legacy Mode option) and in the Etrian Odyssey games.
Thanks for the extensive reply! So how do you think the SSC/SSW series are better with the Life Points? You said no one can die permanently if you make sure everyone rests enough? Can you ever reach a roadbloack where everyone isn't rested enough, so you can't take people into a dungeon for the others to recuperate, or is there some kind of healing /if you play well/normally, it shouldn't happen in the beginning where items are expensive, and later on you can easily avoid it by buying stuff?

The repairing cost seems fair in EG, at least in the sense that once you get an Alchemist, you get perpetual free repairs (you just need to heal them up at an Inn to recast the spell, right)? Level 5 doesn't seem that far away, isn't it like 2 hours of playing like in most games? Or is levelling way slower in that game?

Does the bonus dungeon contain any story, or is it just a post-game boss dungeon like the added tower in FF1 GBA that contains 0 story, or just one attack yell line by the boss and that's it?
Post edited March 22, 2021 by Green_Hilltop
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dtgreene: One interesting thing to look at is how equipment that casts spells when used as an item is handled:

In Wizardry 1-5, when you use an item it has a chance of breaking, which changes the item into a different item or makes it disappear entirely. Usually, a used item becomes a "broken item" earlier in the series, but you later see it being used in a trolly manner (item breaks into a different item that has the same name), or having magical items change into non-magical items of the same type. There is no way to reverse this.

In Elminage Gothic, items have a chance of breaking when used. A broken item is still of the same type, but is no longer functional and can't be used as an item instead. You can repair items in town for a significant cost, or there's an Alchemist spell (5th level IIRC) that will fix all broken items.

In Stranger of Sword City, items have a chance of becoming cursed when used. Such items are non-functional, but the curse is automatically removed for free when you return to town. There's also an item that can remove curses, and it's sold in the shop in infinite quantities (at least in Revisited) (which isn't usually the case for buyable items in this game), though I haven't tried it myself yet.

Another point of comparison:
* In Wizardry 1-5, Bard's Tale 1-3 (classic), and Elminage Gothic, each character has a separate inventory.
* In Stranger of Sword City, you instead have a shared inventory; this is also seen in Bard's Tale Trilogy Remastered (except with a certain Legacy Mode option) and in the Etrian Odyssey games.
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Green_Hilltop: Thanks for the extensive reply! So how do you think the SSC/SSW series are better with the Life Points? You said no one can die permanently if you make sure everyone rests enough? Can you ever reach a roadbloack where everyone isn't rested enough, so you can't take people into a dungeon for the others to recuperate, or is there some kind of healing /if you play well/normally, it shouldn't happen in the beginning where items are expensive, and later on you can easily avoid it by buying stuff?

The repairing cost seems fair in EG, at least in the sense that once you get an Alchemist, you get perpetual free repairs (you just need to heal them up at an Inn to recast the spell, right)? Level 5 doesn't seem that far away, isn't it like 2 hours of playing like in most games? Or is levelling way slower in that game?

Does the bonus dungeon contain any story, or is it just a post-game boss dungeon like the added tower in FF1 GBA that contains 0 story, or just one attack yell line by the boss and that's it?
In Wizardry 1-3 and 5:
* Resurrection is unreliable. It can fail, and if it does, the character's condition will change from DEAD to ASHES to LOST. It is random when this happens, though Vitality affects the success rate.
* The constant auto-saving means that you might not be able to reload a failed resurrection attempt. This is especially true if you do it at the temple. (Note, however, that the temple gives you a better chance of revival, especially for low Vitality characters.)
* If a character is ever LOST (or if the Temple of Cant can't revive an ashen character), the character is gone for good and will be removed on return to town. (Some exceptions exist in a couple of the games, but they're not readily accessible, except maybe to the most experienced parties.)

In Stranger of Sword City (Revisited):
* Each character has a certain number of life points. If the character's age is at most 59, the character will have at least 2.
* A character who dies loses a life point. A character who loses their last life point is gone for good, but you can alternatively reload your last save (or intentionally wipe and use a Light Orb, provided that you're playing on Beginner or Easy difficulty).
* A character who is already dead can't lose any more life points without being revived first; the only way this could happen by accident is if you use the final Divinity skill (or an item that casts it), whose possible random effects include one that revives but does not restore LP.
* Resurrection is always successful, so no RNG here.
* Resurrection and LP recovery can be done in town. This may take a while (and you need to actaully fight enemies for it to happen) unless you can pay a large sum of money, but it is safe and doesn't risk the character perma-dying while recovering. (You can't use the character, but that means the character can't be killed in battle.)

Shop inventory is limited for most items (including revives and LP restores), but it's worth noting that you can always create new characters; worst case, you delete your back-up characters who you don't care about as much if you need to make room for more back-ups while your mains are recovering, but it's unlikely to come to this.

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Green_Hilltop: The repairing cost seems fair in EG, at least in the sense that once you get an Alchemist, you get perpetual free repairs (you just need to heal them up at an Inn to recast the spell, right)? Level 5 doesn't seem that far away, isn't it like 2 hours of playing like in most games? Or is levelling way slower in that game?
In Elminage Gothic, leveling is slow for the first few dungeons, but then you reach a point where you can just fight demons that call allies to help and don't do anything that would mess things up. With the right strategy, you can kill a large number in one battle, have everybody you don't want to earn XP run away (running away removes just that one character from the battle), then have the new character finish off the enemy.

Also, leveling becomes faster as you progress. That final post-game dungeon you will enter at double-digit levels and, if you make it to the end of it, each character will have several hundred.

I've heard of bonus dungeons in the later Wizardry Gaiden dungeons being called "infla-dungeons", where the numbers get pretty big (with some balance issues because of it); that happens in Elminage Gothic as well.

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Green_Hilltop: Does the bonus dungeon contain any story, or is it just a post-game boss dungeon like the added tower in FF1 GBA that contains 0 story, or just one attack yell line by the boss and that's it?
I don't remember.

There are actually three post game dungeons; the first two aren't that bad (unless an enemy teleports your party into rock on the first floor, but that's pretty rare), but the final one is 20 floors of unreasonably difficult enemies where the game's MALOR equivalent (teleport to any square you've been to that isn't no teleport) is not usable at all. You can at least use the LOKTOFEIT equivalent to warp out, and you'll be gaining levels fast enough that not re-learning it isn't that big of an issue.

(Note that I only got to like level 6 of that final post-game dungeon, and there are 20(!) levels, as I mentioned above.)

Also, I forgot: To learn level 5 spells, you need to be level 9. Even then, it's random whether you learn a specific spell (but at least you can reload without consequence, since you level up in town).
Post edited March 22, 2021 by dtgreene
By the way, my current party, as I mentioned in the appropriate sub-forum (feel free to post there), is as follows:
Clocker
Clocker
Clocker
Clocker
Clocker
Clocker (main character)

I'm thinking of changing my clocker into a dancer. Should I? (This would be her second class change.)
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dtgreene: Also, I forgot: To learn level 5 spells, you need to be level 9. Even then, it's random whether you learn a specific spell (but at least you can reload without consequence, since you level up in town).
Tat doesn't sound fun - so for the optimal run, I should have a spell chart ready and make sure I learn the right spells,so I should reload between levelling? You only level up in towns, right?

Did you have an issue with your armour breaking until reaching level 9 with the Alchemist?

So in SSW/SSC you felt that the Life Points are fair, and you can regain them by resting, so it feels like if you rest everyone so that they have max LP, or more than 1, they can never die, right?
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dtgreene: Also, I forgot: To learn level 5 spells, you need to be level 9. Even then, it's random whether you learn a specific spell (but at least you can reload without consequence, since you level up in town).
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Green_Hilltop: Tat doesn't sound fun - so for the optimal run, I should have a spell chart ready and make sure I learn the right spells,so I should reload between levelling? You only level up in towns, right?

Did you have an issue with your armour breaking until reaching level 9 with the Alchemist?

So in SSW/SSC you felt that the Life Points are fair, and you can regain them by resting, so it feels like if you rest everyone so that they have max LP, or more than 1, they can never die, right?
[Elminage Gothic]

I don't remember enemies having attacks that can break your equipment before getting access to that particular spell. On the other hand, I do remember the occasional weapon that would have a chance of breaking when used as an item before getting that spell.

Yes, you only level up in the game's only town. (Note that there's no overworld; going to far-away dungeons doesn't take any more real time than going to nearby ones (though it dies take more in-game time, which can eventually lead to aging).)

Learning spells is similar to the way it works in Wizardry, and is something like this:
* If the character is in a class that learns the spell naturally, the character's level must be high enough.
* If the character is not in a class that learns the spell naturally (due to class change or because you used Spirit Pact after your summoner summoned a monster), the spell's level must be at most half the character's level (rounded up), and the character must know at least one spell of the level already.
* Once the appropriate criterion is met, the character has a (separate) chance of learning each spell at every level up. This chance is affected by Int for mage spells and Pie for priest spells; I don't know what the rule is for Alchemist spells.
* Summons are very different, and have their own mechanics, which are perhaps saved for a separate post.

(Note, of course, that what's listed above also applies to relearning the game's LOKTOFEIT equivalent, which warps you out of the dungeon but is forgotten after use.)

[SoSW/SoSC]

Saviors of Sapphire Wings does not lose LP. Apparently there's some value that indicates how strong your relationship is with that character, and that can drop a bit if the character dies, but there is no permadeath in that game. (There's also no character creation; characters join as the game progresses, each with their own class (but unlike in the game it's a remake of, there's a way to change this), and eventually the ability to add a subclass.)

In Stranger of Sword City (Revisited), yes characters who are taken into the dungeon with at least 2 LP should never die if you don't revive them mid-dungeon. Also, I hear that Revisited reduced the time needed to revive characters and recover their LP.