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CharlesGrey: The best Zelda clone or the best Zelda game, including the Zelda series?
Including Zelda series.
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CharlesGrey: The best Zelda clone or the best Zelda game, including the Zelda series?
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timppu: Sorry I am not a console gamer, so... what is a Zelda clone? What are its characteristics? (I have played Okami and also shortly some Zelda game(s) sometime, but I don't really see the connection. You wander around doing stuff and sometimes fighting enemies?)

A similar blind spot for me like some game being a "metroidvania", unclear what exactly it means (yeah some people have already explained that too).

Now, Doom-clones and Command&Conquer clones, I know what those are!
I don't know what the official definition is, but essentially a Zelda clone is an Action-Adventure game featuring non-linear exploration and a strong focus on puzzle solving, especially in the dungeon portions of the game ( which are usually connected through some overworld ). Plus, you unlock access to new dungeons and areas through use of weapons and other items or abilities you gain throughout the game ( usually in dungeons ). This part actually makes it similar to Metroidvanias, which also feature non-linear exploration and gradually open up as you find more items and abilities. Plus, the latter is usually done in a side-scroller format, in the style of the old Metroid or Castlevania games, hence the name. Also, Zelda games tend to be low on RPG elements, such as experience, level-ups or heavy story/dialogues. It's mostly about exploration, puzzle solving and combat.
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CharlesGrey: ...
Ok, so is something like "Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain" a Zelda-clone? It seems to fit your description quite neatly.

Maybe i was expecting "Zelda-clone" to be more light-hearted "kiddie game" or something. At least that's the impression I got from the Zelda games I've tried shortly, ie. their target audience seemed quite young. :) (Bot meaning that adults couldn't enjoy them as well, of course.)
Post edited September 13, 2017 by timppu
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CharlesGrey: I'm still not quite over their completely messed up port of Resident Evil 4 ( the original version ), but that was long ago, and they seem to deliver solid quality on PC these days. And ~20 bucks seems like a decent price point, at least if they invest some extra effort, such as improved textures, HUD and such.
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MadalinStroe: Resident Evil 4 is part of the newly released Humble Bundle. RE is one of those series I have always been curious in trying, and seeing how, at least from what I've read, RE4 is pretty well separated from the previous titles. But now I noticed you mentioning the shoddy port. What is wrong with it? Or was something wrong with it, and it was then repaired, because you mention an ?original version?.
Yeah, I'm talking about the old version. They re-released it as an HD version a few years back, with improved graphics, and most likely they also fixed any major problems. I'm pretty sure they are selling the new version, since the old one is completely obsolete now.

I played the original on the Nintendo Gamecube, back when it was still exclusive, and it's one of my favorite games of all time. I think I finished it about a dozen times, more than any other game. As for the old PC version, it was based on the inferior PS2 version of the game, which meant: Overall lower graphics quality; several missing graphics effects, such as reflections, glow and and water effects; cutscenes were no longer rendered via in-game graphics, but were instead pre-rendered and saved at very low quality -- this meant that the cut-scenes looked much(!) worse than the in-game graphics. On top of that, the game didn't support mouse-aim ( and is essentially unplayable with keyboard only ), and controller support was a mess too. So yeah, it was much worse than the Gamecube version. Most ( all? ) of that should be fixed in the new PC version, though.

Overall, it's one hell of an Action-Horror game, and absolutely worth checking out if you've never played it. But keep in mind that it is very different from the older games in the series, which had a more slow-paced, atmospheric take on the genre. If you've never played a RE game before, I'd also recommend you check out the remake of the first game. Whether you'll enjoy it more than RE4 depends entirely on your preferences, but they're both great games.
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CharlesGrey: ...
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timppu: Ok, so is something like "Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain" a Zelda-clone? It seems to fit your description quite neatly.

Maybe i was expecting "Zelda-clone" to be more light-hearted "kiddie game" or something. At least that's the impression I got from the Zelda games I've tried shortly, ie. their target audience seemed quite young. :) (Bot meaning that adults couldn't enjoy them as well, of course.)
Blood Omen is one of the classic ( and best? ) Zelda clones, actually. They gave it a much darker, more adult theme, but the gameplay is closely based on Zelda. ( Zelda: A Link to the Past, most likely. )

And I wouldn't write off the Zelda series as "kiddie games" -- Like most Nintendo games, they are family-friendly on the surface, but they are actually quite challenging, extremely well made, and even feature the occasional darker theme. There are any number of good reasons, why the series keeps appearing in various "Best Games Ever" lists.
Post edited September 13, 2017 by CharlesGrey
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CharlesGrey: The best Zelda clone or the best Zelda game, including the Zelda series?
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DaCostaBR: Including Zelda series.
Better than Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker? And then there's Breath of the Wild, which everyone seems to be praising as one of the best games of this decade...

Personally I can't say if you're correct, since I have yet to try Okami ( or Breath of the Wild ), but it's certainly a strong claim.
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CharlesGrey: Better than Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker? And then there's Breath of the Wild, which everyone seems to be praising as one of the best games of this decade...

Personally I can't say if you're correct, since I have yet to try Okami ( or Breath of the Wild ), but it's certainly a strong claim.
I think A Link to the Past is awful, the world was lifeless and its inhabitants are bland, what it had left was the top-down gameplay that wasn't very engaging either. It almost kept me away from the series entirely.

Ocarina of Time, playing it for the first time not too long ago, I was surprised to see how well it held up. It establishes a 3D world, fills it with tiny details and populates it with colorful characters with their own little stories. But in the end it is still the very first attempt at it, and it feels like it.

Wind Waker improved the npcs even more, both in terms of fleshing them out, and in using the improved technology and animation to inject even more character into them. But unfortunately most of them are squeezed into just a couple of islands, and the rest of the world ends up feeling very empty with mostly open ocean and uninhabited islands to explore, and few challenges inbetween.

Breath of the Wild is probably my game of the year so far. It is certainly a very unique experience. It makes the world feel big and has a very strong focus on exploration and discovery. All the different little mechanics are begging for experimentation and to be combined. It still has the towns, and npcs, and little quests, but most of them just don't feel quite as engaging as some in past titles. Don't get me wrong, they're good, but when you look back on it, you probably won't reminisce about quirky npcs and some crazy sidequest you got involved in inside a town, and instead will remember the time you had to find the location in a quest by navigating the landmarks in the wild.

Okami just has it all. The world is enormous. When you feel like you are about to finish the game it's going to be just the end of the first act, then the game opens up even more with an even bigger area to explore and new powers to acquire. You have 12 magical brush powers that can be used in battle and at almost any time in the overworld. You can finish the game with just those, but if you explore and do sidequests you can upgrade all of them once or twice, like evolving a mist power that slows down time into rain that can put out fires. There's so much to do and things to see and people to talk to. You start competing with a dog to see who can steal as many turnips with the housewife chasing you, then move on to performing a royal funeral, and using your powers to reward a child's faith in the gods. You infiltrate the villain's lair by disguising yourself as a monster. You go to a mermaid city under the sea, and a miniature city full of pint-sized people. Even outside of cities there's so much to see, there's a master fireworks expert, there's a haunted house with two old folks luring victims to their doom. You discover that a bunch of special dogs trained to fight some evil went out into the world and haven't returned, then you realize all the dogs you've met so far weren't just window dressing, including the turnip-eating one in the beginning, so you assemble a team of super canines to fight off a threat. Okami is the best.
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DaCostaBR: Okami just has it all. The world is enormous. When you feel like you are about to finish the game it's going to be just the end of the first act, then the game opens up even more with an even bigger area to explore and new powers to acquire. You have 12 magical brush powers that can be used in battle and at almost any time in the overworld. You can finish the game with just those, but if you explore and do sidequests you can upgrade all of them once or twice, like evolving a mist power that slows down time into rain that can put out fires. There's so much to do and things to see and people to talk to. You start competing with a dog to see who can steal as many turnips with the housewife chasing you, then move on to performing a royal funeral, and using your powers to reward a child's faith in the gods. You infiltrate the villain's lair by disguising yourself as a monster. You go to a mermaid city under the sea, and a miniature city full of pint-sized people. Even outside of cities there's so much to see, there's a master fireworks expert, there's a haunted house with two old folks luring victims to their doom. You discover that a bunch of special dogs trained to fight some evil went out into the world and haven't returned, then you realize all the dogs you've met so far weren't just window dressing, including the turnip-eating one in the beginning, so you assemble a team of super canines to fight off a threat. Okami is the best.
While I'm not sure it trumps Link to the Past (one of my favourite games of all time though, so a bit biased), Ocarina of Time or Breath of the Wild I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Okami is an awesome game, an absolute hidden gem.
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DaCostaBR: Okami is the best. ...
Thanks for taking the time to explain your opinion on Okami and Zelda. Like I said, I have yet to play Okami and Breath of the Wild, so I can't say much about the quality of either, but I have played most of the older Zelda games. In the end it probably comes down to personal preferences, to some extent, but I think most will agree that both games/series are exceptionally good. I guess Okami didn't quite have the same impact, because the Zelda series was the first to introduce many game concepts, so it was a huge influence on other game developers throughout video gaming history.

One thing is interesting to observe: During the days of the NES, SNES or N64 the Zelda series established trends and influenced/spawned entire genres. Now with Breath of the Wild, it seems like Nintendo is catching up to trends which have been introduced and shaped by other developers years ago. Of course they're doing it remarkably well, and they're putting their own spin on things, but it's still kinda strange.