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teceem: So you don't enjoy "purely combat-focused gameplay" unless... when you do (Doom, and what else).
The first part mostly applies to tactical CRPGs, so maybe you could say, I only enjoy "purely combat-focused gameplay" in action games (fast-paced, skill-based). But atmosphere and exploration play a big part, too - environmental storytelling, if you like. I also strongly prefer games like Doom to games like Serious Sam, cautious progressive exploration to frantic arena matches in locked spaces.

I guess I could imagine playing a dungeon crawl CRPG like Temple of Elemental Evil without explicit (or interesting) story, despite it being turn-based, but on the condition that it is atmospheric and that there is great variety in environment and opponents, as well as exploration, puzzles, secrets, and that everything is hand-crafted, no procedural content generation, no random encounters. I would have to like the graphics and the combat would have to be integrated in the game world and include tactical positioning, not just menus to click through. That's why I don't think I would have the patience to play through M&M 1. I don't find this menu-based combat in oldschool CRPGs or JRPGs very engaging, so I would need a story to go along with it to give me some incentive to continue regardless of the repetition in combat.

To be fair though, most of that doesn't really have to do with the age of a game. Just that this type of CRPG I'm not too keen on was more common back then than now, I guess. And that - even though graphics are secondary - I enjoy fine VGA art much more than crude EGA and CGA drawings.
Post edited August 28, 2020 by Leroux
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Leroux: I don't find this menu-based combat in oldschool CRPGs or JRPGs very engaging, so I would need a story to go along with it to give me some incentive to continue regardless of the repetition in combat.
The incentive is to find better loot and develop your characters.
To me too much story just gets in the way of the fun, but then I read lots of real fiction (about 20,000 words a day I reckon) which I find much more rewarding, so I have no need for it in games.

Funny you should mention Serious Sam, though. I recently played it and found it be a breath of fresh air after being tired of pure shooters. Bloody difficult, though. First time I had to lower difficulty below Normal.
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Carradice: Albion is fantastic. More than just an inspiration for Avatar. However, when I tried to play GOG version in my computer, sometimes the game sped up too much, in bursts. This never happened in the starship, but on the planetary surface. Do you know of any trick to make the game behave in modern computers?
Sorry, no idea. I didn't encounter any problems when I played the Gog version, but my laptop probably isn't quite "modern" anymore (Windows 7, bought in 2011).
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PetrusOctavianus: The incentive is to find better loot and develop your characters.
Well, I said "to give ME some incentive", not you. ;) I realize that it's an incentive for some, but not enough for me.

I'd agree though that too much story can get into the way of fun, too. I usually enjoy the small scale stuff in side quests and environmental storytelling more than the average long-winded epic fantasy tale about catacylsms and chosen ones.

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PetrusOctavianus: Funny you should mention Serious Sam, though. I recently played it and found it be a breath of fresh air after being tired of pure shooters. Bloody difficult, though. First time I had to lower difficulty below Normal.
Doesn't really surprise me, it's challenging combat over storytelling and exploration again. I guess we just look for different things in games.
Post edited August 28, 2020 by Leroux
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teceem: So you don't enjoy "purely combat-focused gameplay" unless... when you do (Doom, and what else).
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Leroux: The first part mostly applies to tactical CRPGs, so maybe you could say, I only enjoy "purely combat-focused gameplay" in action games (fast-paced, skill-based). But atmosphere and exploration play a big part, too - environmental storytelling, if you like. I also strongly prefer games like Doom to games like Serious Sam, cautious progressive exploration to frantic arena matches in locked spaces.

I guess I could imagine playing a dungeon crawl CRPG like Temple of Elemental Evil without explicit (or interesting) story, despite it being turn-based, but on the condition that it is atmospheric and that there is great variety in environment and opponents, as well as exploration, puzzles, secrets, and that everything is hand-crafted, no procedural content generation, no random encounters. I would have to like the graphics and the combat would have to be integrated in the game world and include tactical positioning, not just menus to click through. That's why I don't think I would have the patience to play through M&M 1. I don't find this menu-based combat in oldschool CRPGs or JRPGs very engaging, so I would need a story to go along with it to give me some incentive to continue regardless of the repetition in combat.

To be fair though, most of that doesn't really have to do with the age of a game. Just that this type of CRPG I'm not too keen on was more common back then than now, I guess. And that - even though graphics are secondary - I enjoy fine VGA art much more than crude EGA and CGA drawings.
Thanks for your elaborate explanation! I hope I didn't give you the impression that you had to explain yourself to me. Any personal preference is perfectly valid, however illogical it might seem to someone else.
I appreciate you giving me a look into your "gaming psyche", and I can relate to some of it. I still don't like Doom-style games, because - although I like the atmosphere - the interaction is limited, and it's mostly shooting monsters for the sake of shooting monsters.
When I said "story-focused", I generally mean "an interesting motivation". Strategy games e.g. usually have varied game play, but without a (good) campaign, it just feels like gaming for the sake of gaming.
Final Fantasy I through VI on NES systems. Pretty much anything on old Nintendo systems. I used Retroarch recently to play the Warriors of Light. The Ultima Collection and Forgotten Realms games on pc.
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Post edited August 28, 2020 by Thulcedoom
Rocket Knight Adventures (MD, 1993)
This game is like a smörgåsbord of all things I love about Konami during this era and has the best overall level design in its series; fast and tight movement, great variety with a couple of shoot 'em up levels mixed in as well as a boxing duel between two giant robots, great bosses that sometimes have multiple forms or phases, great audiovisuals with some humourous touches, and near technical mastery of the system all in one package. The jetpack, while implemented slightly better in later games, is great fun to use here as well and sometimes makes the game a contender for the fastest playing 16-bit game if you know the levels well.

Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap/Monster World II (SMS, 1989)
My fave 8-bit game after SMB 3 and still one of the best MV/Platform Adventure games if we include later versions and fan remakes; it's mainly the dungeon design that's been improved in later games but these are still fun as enemy gauntlet-style challenges. Presentation and pacing are great, the forms are distinct and fun to use, there are cool secrets like being able to switch forms or create platforms anywhere, and some non-linearity in the dungeon order. This is also where the whole "beginning of the game ties into the prequel" trope comes from afaik.

Metal Storm (NES, 1991)
A creative and cool early mech action game with an overall fair challenge and only minor technical issues considering its speed and frantic action. It's either the origin of or at least one of the first games to make good use of a gravity flip mechanic as seen in VVVVVV.
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TheDudeLebowski: Can't have a LEC (fan)game without Sam & Max! I look forward to seeing the final game!
Yes, Sam & Max had to be in it somewhere. :D

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Leroux: Looks awesome! Please hide it from Disney until it's ready (and ideally after completion, too, but I'd want to play it). Will it be an AGS game or what engine are you using?
Thanks! I'm currently participating in a giveaway here on the GOG forums for GameMaker 1.4, with some luck that's the engine I will be using, otherwise I'll go with AGS. So far I've just been working on the art and the story.

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Leroux: Looks awesome! Please hide it from Disney until it's ready (and ideally after completion, too, but I'd want to play it). Will it be an AGS game or what engine are you using?
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Breja: Well, thankfully they didn't take down the very, very well done Return of the Tentacle, so maybe this will be safe too.
Yes, most fangames based on LucasArts IPs that I know of have been fine and showing their (in most cases unfinished) projects for years. I'm not sure if any of them have been contacted by Disney's legal department to tell them to stop.

Maniac Mansion Deluxe is the only one I remember that got a cease and desist letter and had to stop distributing the game (that was many years ago, I'm not sure what happened next, not even sure if the original site still exists). But since Maniac Mansion Deluxe is a remake (and a good one!) instead of a sequel / spin off, I guess it was more likely to be shut down by Disney.