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high rated
It's disappointing that GOG hasn't responded to this any further since their last posts on Friday. Disappointing, but not surprising. There's no way to reconcile claiming to be anti-DRM and pro-gamer as core values while at the same time selling DRM'ed games for the Epic Store.

And the notion that "GOG", "GOG.com" and "GOG Galaxy" are now suddenly three distinctly separate things is laughable. Nobody considered them separate entities before and GOG never said or did anything to suggest that they were - quite the opposite in fact, considering all they've done to make Galaxy the primary focus of everything GOG over the past ~5 years or so and how hard they've tried to foist it upon everyone who uses GOG. It's just a poor attempt at obfuscating and excusing their hypocrisy and the dropping of the last of their core values.

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adamhm: And to top it all off, to do this with Epic's store in particular? Who have employed such scummy practices that it would have been less egregious if GOG had announced this deal with Steam!
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§pectre: Steam has been worse but has more features and cheaper games. The way some people are complaining in this thread makes them look willfully ignorant.
I've been a gamer long before Steam came about, I saw how it rose to dominance and evolved over time. Epic are much worse.

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§pectre: It depends if there is a drm free clause in this deal and easy gog conversion from the Epic files.
There isn't - if there was such an arrangement involved then GOG would be making a HUGE deal about it.

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Gersen: ...only peoples that will see those games are Epic customers that have enabled Epic store integration on Galaxy (So only a small percentage of the Epic market share), so if publishers wants to access the full Gog market share then they will still need to release the game on Gog proper.
GOG customer: "Hey <publisher>, how about releasing <game> on GOG?"
Publisher: "Hi <GOG customer>, you can already buy <game> from GOG by enabling <store>. Here's how: ..."

Also:

Publisher's social media: "Great news, you can now buy <game> through GOG! Here's how: ..."

And:

GOG customer: "But I want a DRM-free version with offline installers..."
Publisher: "(GOG tells us this group represents only a tiny minority of their userbase; we already target the majority via our Epic exclusivity deal. Conclusion: not worth the effort.)

Hi <GOG customer>, we have no plans to release <game> directly on GOG at this time. However you can still buy and play <game> through GOG from <store> and not have to deal with <store>'s client other than having it installed. Here's how: ..."
Post edited October 06, 2020 by adamhm
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adamhm: It's disappointing that GOG hasn't responded to this any further since their last posts on Friday. Disappointing, but not surprising. There's no way to reconcile claiming to be anti-DRM and pro-gamer as core values while at the same time selling DRM'ed games for the Epic Store.
To be fair, from the outside looking in, i don't think they have prepared any level of communication planning or response layout. Whether that is through sheer ignorance, arrogance or naivety is up for you to decide. I kinda feel like it's a disconnect with their core customer base more than anything insidious, but the lack of communication does little to help.

The moment you are afraid to talk to your users is the moment you need to rethink your approach
Post edited October 06, 2020 by Linko64
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rjbuffchix: -Until now, selling a DRM-free game on GOG.com was the way to reach GOG the company's audience.
-Now, selling a DRMed game on Galaxy from Epic is another way to reach GOG the company's audience.
Because it is framed incorrectly, it will only reach Gog audience that is already an Epic customer and has enabled Epic store integration, as in, only a fraction of the the already existing Epic audience.
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Linko64: To be fair, from the outside looking in, i don't think they have prepared any level of communication planning or response layout. Whether that is through sheer ignorance, arrogance or naivety is up for you to decide. I kinda feel like it's a disconnect with their core customer base more than anything insidious, but the lack of communication does little to help.

The moment you are afraid to talk to your users is the moment you need to rethink your approach
The way they announced it tells me they wanted to bury it, at least as far as those users who still care about DRM-free, offline installers etc. are concerned. Announcing via a brief post on their forums in the Galaxy section where few of these users will see it, and right before launching a big sale to celebrate their 12th anniversary...

They also posted to social media, but I don't think there's such a big overlap between these groups (I'd guess that social media users are probably more likely to be supportive of this move)
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rjbuffchix: -Until now, selling a DRM-free game on GOG.com was the way to reach GOG the company's audience.
-Now, selling a DRMed game on Galaxy from Epic is another way to reach GOG the company's audience.
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Gersen: Because it is framed incorrectly, it will only reach Gog audience that is already an Epic customer and has enabled Epic store integration, as in, only a fraction of the the already existing Epic audience.
And for a developer/publisher who is willing to release their DRMed game on Epic/Epic store within Galaxy 2.0, and who is not willing to budge on the DRM being part of the game, they will effectively be able now to reach "some" of GOG the company's audience rather than "zero". That is the point and not framed incorrectly.

Since us DRM-free-only customers are such an "insignificant minority" according to many, I don't think the developer/publisher who insists on DRM is going to be swayed on backing down, when "the majority" of GOG's audience uses the Galaxy client, it's just a matter of them getting them to make an Epic account also.

In other words the push demanded by developers/publishers who care about getting more of GOG's audience would be to get them on Galaxy and using this new store on Galaxy. GOG the company does not have any real bargaining power to push back with now, since they are condoning this and have tried funneling their users to Galaxy for years.
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rjbuffchix: And for a developer/publisher who is willing to release their DRMed game on Epic/Epic store within Galaxy 2.0, and who is not willing to budge on the DRM being part of the game, they will effectively be able now to reach "some" of GOG the company's audience rather than "zero". That is the point and not framed incorrectly.
And it doesn't change anything that's an audience they already were able to reach, because those peoples were already Epic customers and already purchasing games on Epic store. In the same way that when a publisher release a game on Steam they are able to reach "some" of Gog the company's audience rather than "zero", as they are able to reach Gog customers that also purchase games on Steam.
Post edited October 06, 2020 by Gersen
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adamhm: It's disappointing that GOG hasn't responded to this any further since their last posts on Friday. Disappointing, but not surprising. There's no way to reconcile claiming to be anti-DRM and pro-gamer as core values while at the same time selling DRM'ed games for the Epic Store.
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Linko64: To be fair, from the outside looking in, i don't think they have prepared any level of communication planning or response layout. Whether that is through sheer ignorance, arrogance or naivety is up for you to decide. I kinda feel like it's a disconnect with their core customer base more than anything insidious, but the lack of communication does little to help.

The moment you are afraid to talk to your users is the moment you need to rethink your approach
They have been lacking in the communication dept with the user base for a hell of a long time now. Most of us can probably remember when GOG would of made a statement without issue and even fielded questions and concerns. Makes one miss the days of TeT and the french monk tbh. There certainly was a larger sense of community at that time and GOG was actively talking with the user base.

Since the blue drawback and the site redesign amongst a few other things it seems to be a lot less fun and friendly. The only times you see a blue nowadays is if they know that they have stepped in the shit. Except now they are swimming in it with it quickly raising over their heads with no sign of stoppage. It will just keep getting deeper if they let issues slide without communication with the community. I hope that they at the very least realize that.
Post edited October 06, 2020 by EnforcerSunWoo
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Gersen: And it doesn't change anything that's an audience they already were able to reach, because those peoples were already Epic customers and already purchasing games on Epic store. In the same way that when a publisher release a game on Steam they are able to reach "some" of Gog the company's audience rather than "zero", as they are able to reach Gog customers that also purchase games on Steam.
Except that the publishers now get to tell GOG users (directly in response to requests for GOG releases, or via social media/news/blog posts etc.) that they can now buy their game from GOG, you just need to do this...

Also I would expect that a not insignificant number of GOG users do in fact have an EGS account, even if just for the freebies.

This also has the side effect of making it a bit more appealing for publishers/developers to agree to Epic's exclusivity deals.
Post edited October 06, 2020 by adamhm
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rjbuffchix: And for a developer/publisher who is willing to release their DRMed game on Epic/Epic store within Galaxy 2.0, and who is not willing to budge on the DRM being part of the game, they will effectively be able now to reach "some" of GOG the company's audience rather than "zero". That is the point and not framed incorrectly.
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Gersen: And it doesn't change anything that's an audience they already were able to reach, because those peoples were already Epic customers and already purchasing games on Epic store. In the same way that when a publisher release a game on Steam they are able to reach "some" of Gog the company's audience rather than "zero", as they are able to reach Gog customers that also purchase games on Steam.
I do understand your point that the person with a GOG account and an Epic account is "reachable" by the company the same way and counts as the same single customer in that sense. However, GOG the company is not condoning those purchases (ditto for the customers who buy on both GOG + Scheme). GOG the company wanted their customers buying here on GOG.com...until now, apparently. So it does change things, reducing GOG's power to negotiate getting games here DRM-free, at minimum.

Why would a developer/publisher who insists upon DRM, want to put their game on GOG.com in a DRM-free version with offline installer if they can just sell a DRMed game through the Galaxy 2.0 Epic app? Don't tell me they'd bring a DRM-free version here also "to reach the rest of GOG's audience" because the DRM-loving developers/publishers could have been reaching ALL of GOG's audience right now in the present day, and they are still refusing to do so.
Post edited October 06, 2020 by rjbuffchix
Are there any other places that only sell DRM-free games?
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adamhm: Except that the publishers now get to tell GOG users (directly in response to requests for GOG releases, or via social media/news/blog posts etc.) that they can now buy their game from GOG, you just need to do this...
You mean the same publishers who 99.99% of the time said "The game is available on Steam" or if you were lucky "we don't plan to release on Gog for the time being"

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adamhm: This also has the side effect of making it a bit more appealing for publishers/developers to agree to Epic's exclusivity deals.
Yeah, if a couple of tens of millions of dolars is not enough to convince them, I am sure that having a couple of percent of the Epic user base being able to purchase the game through Galaxy definitely will...
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EnforcerSunWoo: It will just keep getting deeper if they let issues slide without communication with the community. I hope that they at the very least realize that.
Remember that "community members went to GOG HQ" thing? Yeh, nothing much came of it. And I think they gave up trying.

EDIT: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/6_community_members_went_to_gog_hq/page1

Let me quote Leroux's words from Aug 2019:

Personally, I feel that nothing much has changed since then, that GOG is still as tone-deaf as before in the relations with the community and continuing to erode the trust they had built with their core audience. I know several good people from back in the days who have (mostly) turned their back on GOG due to this and even more serious issues, but so far I've still stuck around regardless. Admittedly, mainly due to all the forum activity, the shop has already become less and less special and attractive to me after all the "Good News"(tm). And two recent events - despite appearing quite particular and not getting much attention yet - make me wonder why I still keep defending GOG against those who've already abandoned it, as they seem to show how little GOG has actually taken to heart the complaints that lead to "6 community members going to GOG HQ". At the time I was ready to wait and see, give them the benefit of the doubt, before declaring it a simple PR stunt for appeasement, but now I'm not so sure anymore ...
See also Wishbone's post on that same page.

It's funny how certain people here continue to pretend that nobody ever gave up on GOG (you're just threatening to leave, otherwise you'd be buying on steam already!!1) when many old timers have in fact left.
Post edited October 06, 2020 by clarry
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Gersen: because those peoples were already Epic customers and already purchasing games on Epic store.
I buy things from Epic as well as GOG. But I see no reason to buy via GOG Galaxy as its just as easy if not easier to load the Epic Client up and get it directly.
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nightcraw1er.488: I note i some articles on this, that Epic is a tester for other storefronts (presumably steam at least), therefore I would give up any hope in the future of games available elsewhere coming here drm free. No developer is going to go through the hassle of drm free if they can release on steam, and then sell to gog customers without doing anything else. That is the real issue here, not the immediate effect but the future possibilities.
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MysterD: Bethesda did release Prey 2017, Dishonored series, and other games that were laced w/ Steam client-app and/or other DRM other there right onto GOG way later.

They probably needed money; hence why they probably got bought by Microsoft, after that disaster of Fallout 76.

I also would guess that other dev's and/or companies that might want to support that fan-base that doesn't buy games laced with DRM and/or games w/ forced client-app's (from places like Epic, Steam, etc) - they might bring their stuff way later to GOG just to get those missing sales that always eluded them from that DRM-FREE crowd.

While I do use many stores like Epic, Steam, etc etc - one of the annoying things is they often do NOT note what games are currently DRM-FREE over there. We have to follow threads over here on GOG and check PC Gaming Wiki's over to find out if said game has No DRM over on those stores.
Afraid not, there is very few devs who care about drm. It’s about getting your game to the biggest market, steam is the biggest market, and now they can target a fair part of gog without changing anything. Its win win for them.
And I don’t say it will be immediate, heck epic isn’t out of beta yet. It may take 6 months, it may take a year, but eventually releases will dry up.
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Well let's all be honest, in the end it's a result of GOG's user base not actually giving much shit about DRM free - maybe we are vocal, but not when it really counts.

Most people are on a stance of "Well, yeah, DRM-free is nice, but when I want a game, and it's only on Steam, I'll get it there." Many made an Epic account for the freebies. And how many of those stayed true to their initial intention of "only the freebies, they'll never get money from me"?

Only a tiny fraction of users actually goes through with it and buys DRM-free exclusively. If there was a majority of DRM = no buy users here, GOG wouldn't have done this.

We ourselves are hypocrites, when we cheer to FCKDRM and then go play our Skyrim, GTA5, Civ 6 or Red Dead Redemption 2.

I guess Galaxy 2 showed GOG how many people have accounts on all these platforms, essentially showing them how little we care about DRM ourselves.