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General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 04, 2020
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Truth007: You aren't getting the point, gog now supports drm. On reddit gog already said there will be drm'ed epic games specifically.
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McMicroDonalds: That's kind of splitters hairs dude. That's like saying CD project support DRM because geralt of rivia made a guest appearance is Soul Calabar and Monster Hunter. Until they start selling DRM games on the in the actual store I will pay this no mind. It's not like I use the client anyway.
They already are, No Man's Sky now has DRM'd content in single player that cannot be accessed without Galaxy or hacking.
Posted October 04, 2020
low rated
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adamhm: Except that GOG has spent the entire 12 years of its existence up to now campaigning against DRM, making a point about how it's unethical, anti-gamer & anti-game-preservation, saying as much in interviews/publicity events, running initiatives such as FCK DRM etc. and making repeated promises that they'd never sell games with it; they've made this their identity, their brand - and now they're effectively throwing that away by deciding to start selling DRM'ed games on behalf of another distributor (one who has been shown to be rather scummy in general and pretty much the polar opposite of what GOG is supposed to have been standing for).
I get what you are saying. Just telling that it's their choice, their business decision and they are the ones who are going to deal with consequences, be it good or bad.
But for us consumers nothing practically changes (as we still get to buy DRM free games from GOG.com if we wish), other than our perception of GOG and what they (used to?) stand for.
For some it will be something unforgivable because of their vision how GOG should operate and ethical principles or some other factor, but for some it is just another business decision. If I were part owner or shareholder of GOG it would be something to worry about, but as a consumer I get to vote with my wallet, no emotions attached.
Post edited October 04, 2020 by krakataul
Posted October 04, 2020
high rated
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Truth007: You aren't getting the point, gog now supports drm. On reddit gog already said there will be drm'ed epic games specifically.
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McMicroDonalds: That's kind of splitters hairs dude. That's like saying CD project support DRM because geralt of rivia made a guest appearance is Soul Calabar and Monster Hunter. Until they start selling DRM games on the in the actual store I will pay this no mind. It's not like I use the client anyway.
GOG is both actively promoting and profiting off DRM'ed games now. If that's not reason enough to be concerned, I don't know what is.
Posted October 04, 2020
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McMicroDonalds: That's kind of splitters hairs dude. That's like saying CD project support DRM because geralt of rivia made a guest appearance is Soul Calabar and Monster Hunter. Until they start selling DRM games on the in the actual store I will pay this no mind. It's not like I use the client anyway.
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ReynardFox: They already are, No Man's Sky now has DRM'd content in single player that cannot be accessed without Galaxy or hacking.
Really? like what?
Posted October 04, 2020
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ReynardFox: They already are, No Man's Sky now has DRM'd content in single player that cannot be accessed without Galaxy or hacking.
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McMicroDonalds: Really? like what?
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/no_mans_sky_isnt_fully_drmfree
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adamhm: Except that GOG has spent the entire 12 years of its existence up to now campaigning against DRM, making a point about how it's unethical, anti-gamer & anti-game-preservation, saying as much in interviews/publicity events, running initiatives such as FCK DRM etc. and making repeated promises that they'd never sell games with it; they've made this their identity, their brand - and now they're effectively throwing that away by deciding to start selling DRM'ed games on behalf of another distributor (one who has been shown to be rather scummy in general and pretty much the polar opposite of what GOG is supposed to have been standing for).
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krakataul: I get what you are saying. Just telling that it's their choice, their business decision and they are the ones who are going to deal with consequences, be it good or bad.
But for us consumers nothing practically changes (as we still get to buy DRM free games from GOG.com if we wish), other than our perception of GOG and what they (used to?) stand for.
For some it will be something unforgivable because of their vision how GOG should operate and ethical principles or some other factor, but for some it is just another business decision. If I were part owner or shareholder of GOG it would be something to worry about, but as a consumer I get to vote with my wallet, no emotions attached.
Please, name me a viable alternative platform for DRM free gaming.

If this deal screws GOG, and it in all likelihood WILL screw them (because as it's been pointed out a million times in this thread, almost no one will see the benefit in making DRM-less installers for the site if they can just sell the Epic version through Galaxy), DRM free as a concept will be seen as a failure. Ok, sure, some indies will put out client free installers now and then, but no one will successfully attempt another storefront on the scale of GOG with the goal of DRM free after this.

It's not about brand loyalty, it goes way beyond that, the industry as a whole is becoming more and more anti-consumer, and we gamers who actually value ownership and preservation don't really have anywhere else to go If GOG fails.

We as gamers who value games as an art form that needs to be preserved for everyone now and in the future to experience will ALL suffer.
Post edited October 04, 2020 by ReynardFox
Posted October 04, 2020
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McMicroDonalds: Really? like what?
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ReynardFox: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/no_mans_sky_isnt_fully_drmfree
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krakataul: I get what you are saying. Just telling that it's their choice, their business decision and they are the ones who are going to deal with consequences, be it good or bad.
But for us consumers nothing practically changes (as we still get to buy DRM free games from GOG.com if we wish), other than our perception of GOG and what they (used to?) stand for.
For some it will be something unforgivable because of their vision how GOG should operate and ethical principles or some other factor, but for some it is just another business decision. If I were part owner or shareholder of GOG it would be something to worry about, but as a consumer I get to vote with my wallet, no emotions attached.
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ReynardFox: Please, name me a viable alternative platform for DRM free gaming.

If this deal screws GOG, and it in all likelihood WILL screw them (because as it's been pointed out a million times in this thread, almost no one will see the benefit in making DRM-less installers for the site if they can just sell the Epic version through Galaxy), DRM free as a concept will be seen as a failure. Ok, sure, some indies will put out client free installers now and then, but no one will successfully make another storefront on the scale of GOG with a goal of DRM free after this.

It's not about brand loyalty, it goes way beyond that, the industry as a whole is becoming more and more anti-consumer, and we gamers who actually value ownership and preservation don't really have anywhere else to go If GOG fails.

We as gamers who value games as an art form that needs to be preserved for everyone now and in the future to experience will ALL suffer.
After looking through it seems like it's something out of GOG's hands. Can't really blame them for it. Take it up with Hello games. It's obvious that NMS is an ongoing service but they sold it as a finished product. Which means GOG would either have to pull it from the store, or block any further updates. Not sure exactly what you expect them to do.
Posted October 04, 2020
high rated
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McMicroDonalds: After looking through it seems like it's something out of GOG's hands. Can't really blame them for it. Take it up with Hello games. It's obvious that NMS is an ongoing service but they sold it as a finished product. Which means GOG would either have to pull it from the store, or block any further updates. Not sure exactly what you expect them to do.
Delist it until Hello Games gets their shit together and fixes it, that's what, by continuing to sell the game with DRM, they are being complicit.

No single player DRM has to mean exactly that, anything less is hypocritical.
Post edited October 04, 2020 by ReynardFox
Posted October 04, 2020
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ReynardFox: Please, name me a viable alternative platform for DRM free gaming.

If this deal screws GOG, and it in all likelihood WILL screw them (because as it's been pointed out a million times in this thread, almost no one will see the benefit in making DRM-less installers for the site if they can just sell the Epic version through Galaxy), DRM free as a concept will be seen as a failure. Ok, sure, some indies will put out client free installers now and then, but no one will successfully attempt another storefront on the scale of GOG with a goal of DRM free after this.

It's not about brand loyalty, it goes way beyond that, the industry as a whole is becoming more and more anti-consumer, and we gamers who actually value ownership and preservation don't really have anywhere else to go If GOG fails.

We as gamers who value games as an art form that needs to be preserved for everyone now and in the future to experience will ALL suffer.
I guess we look at things differently because I don't see GOG.com as a platform, for me it is just a niche digital games store, selling DRM free games (99%). Also, I've never thought GOG (the company) is some sort of paragon of virtue nor that it's their job to fight for consumer rights or for changes in digital distribution legislative. It is about selling games with profit.

Time will tell if this deal screws GOG or not.
I could speculate that selling DRM free games is not profitable enough, evidence being that indeed there is no other digital games stores with predominantly DRM free offer.
I could speculate that business of selling games will soon drastically change due to some legal decisions in EU (expansion of first sale doctrine) and expansion of game rental services (Xbox Game Pass etc.) and they need to adapt by repositioning and cooperating with bigger players.
Whatever reason may be, it's ultimately GOG's choice, for better or worse. I just hope that compromises they are willing to take, like dealing with Epic and DRM'ed games, means they are able to keep offering DRM free games on GOG.com for yet another day or two.
Posted October 04, 2020
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coffeecup: [...] My guess is that GOG did this to make linux users doing repackging with WINE much more painful and forcing them more or less to use GOG Galaxy under Wine. [...]
IIRC, someone posted in the updates thread that they changed the format, so they can automate the creation of the standalone installers, directly using the updated content uploaded to GOG Galaxy by the devs/pubs. And yet, updated standalone installers often take more than just a couple of/few days.



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DarkSaber2k: They put the news on Twitter too.......
Was that on the GOG.com Twitter account or on the Galaxy 2.0 one?




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TheDudeLebowski: [...] Have we "served our purpose" in supporting GOG's growth and are, therefore, expendable? Will we get an official response concerning our protest?
Yes, we have, and yes, we are, but not quite at the point of completely dropping us, hence the effort to hide this new DRM-agnostic store from those of us that DRM-free standalone installers are a prerequisite for more purchases.



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timppu: I said it before, but I guess no one reads my messages so that is ok:

Whether or not the Epic games sold through Galaxy have DRM or not is pretty much irrelevant to the big picture. The following bigger issue would still be there even if all those Galaxy Epic games were DRM-free:

GOG (Galaxy) is starting to provide and sell games of their (formerly) direct competitor, relying on their competitor's service and ecosystem. The game is purchased and downloaded from the competitor's service, and also uses their services for e.g. multiplayer and such. [...]
I'm not sure that the wording of the official announcement - "the brand new store we’re working on", "In the new store, we will be welcoming games from both GOG.COM and beyond", "we will be [...] expanding the store's catalog" - suggests that the deal is for GOG to rely on their competitor's service and ecosystem. Combined with the statement that these purchases are covered by GOG's support and refund policy, and Chandra's comment about the Epic client, it reads like how Steam's handling things for EA/Ubisoft/etc games they sell, i.e. the content of said store is hosted on GOG servers (under a different domain, obviously), and accessible to users of GOG Galaxy 2.0 that make a purchase via the client. That it's called "Epic store" (based on a screenshot posted in this thread) seems to have more to do with the fact that it's currently only EGS exclusives, than anything else.

GOG's just hiding it within GOG Galaxy 2.0, and spinning it as being something completely unrelated to their brand, and with no effect to the userbase that doesn't use the client. This also obfuscates the fact that income from GOG.com will now be directed to develop and support a client-exclusive_DRM-agnostic (at best) store.

I could be wrong, of course, and I don't expect GOG to be transparent about the actual foundation and works of this "new store".

LiquidOxygen80's suggestion is what will make the argument that GOG =/= Galaxy 2.0 actually true.
Post edited October 04, 2020 by HypersomniacLive
Posted October 04, 2020
high rated
It's really quite amazing how some people have menaged, with no help from GOG and against all evidence, to reframe this deal, which is by itself really the only threat here to the integrity of GOG's DRM-free policy, as some necessary compromise/ last ditch effort to save that DRMF-free policy. It really is a stupendous example of how people can fool themselves to see what they want to see.
Posted October 04, 2020
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RawSteelUT: The problem is that literally every time CDP so much as farts the wrong way (which they do often, to be fair), there's SO MUCH doom and gloom. By the logic of the crazies, GOG should have abandoned DRM-Free at least four times in as many years.

The problem is that there's no logical reason for them to do so. They're not going to be able to throw the amount of money that Epic does to get games, and they're never going to match the near-ubiquitous nature of Steam. They can't even get by selling Steam keys because a million other sites do that too, with Humble Bundle being the huge one (legitimate one, at least - we don't talk about G2A). They ditch DRM-Free, they may as well close the site down, and the fact it's still listed on the front page, they STILL haven't made Galaxy mandatory, and there still isn't a single game on GOG that's DRMed (including their megahit Witcher titles!).
I agree with you, and I'm usually the one saying this stuff. Good recent example Was Deus Ex 4, which had issues with the offline installers at first and while the forum went into panic mode GOG just quickly fixed it within a week and moved on. I do think many people here let their dislike of DRM turn them into drama queens.

However I think the concern is that if GOG's Galaxy 2.0 push pays off and they get a lot of mainstream attention they don't have now, then they might be more willing to sacrifice the niche audience they have now for more games to sell and profit to make. I think that's a long-term concern though, and even if it happened they wouldn't remove existing offline games. So at the end of the day, the path seems simple... buy DRM free games with offline installers as long as GOG provides them, which there's no sign of them doing.
Posted October 04, 2020
high rated
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krakataul: I get what you are saying. Just telling that it's their choice, their business decision and they are the ones who are going to deal with consequences, be it good or bad.
Not disagreeing with this, however it is in direct contradiction to the "core values" they were founded on and extremely hypocritical for them to do. How the hell can they argue with a straight face how bad and unethical DRM is and get publicity for their "firmly anti-DRM" stance after this move?

Also there's a good chance this could lead to fewer DRM-free games on GOG, because:

--> With this move EGS exclusive games will be promoted to GOG users via Galaxy.
--> We're told that the vast majority of GOG users use Galaxy now
--> So it stands to reason that publishers may well decide "why bother with the time, effort and expense of a 'proper' GOG release of our game when we can simply release the game on Epic, have it be sold through GOG Galaxy and still target the majority of their userbase?"

There's also the possibility that this is just the "thin end of the wedge" to allowing DRM on GOG games. After all they clearly no longer believe that DRM is such a bad thing if they seriously think this is a good idea, and if GOG's no longer so firmly against DRM any more then why not allow it on products in their own store too? It starts with just some small concessions first, and then gradually works up from there.

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krakataul: But for us consumers nothing practically changes (as we still get to buy DRM free games from GOG.com if we wish), other than our perception of GOG and what they (used to?) stand for.
Nothing changes for now, but in 6 months? A year? Two years? Five years...? Only time will tell. It took some time for Humble to transition from being their own thing into becoming a mere Steam key reseller too.
Post edited October 04, 2020 by adamhm
Posted October 04, 2020
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CHP_89: Most games in my gog library are epic höhö!

Nah joke aside, I just hope that like some ppl mentioned GOG only sells the drm-free games from epic or its something about a partnership.
If you compile subforums, Twitter and Reddit, you're almost starting to get a feel for some of what they want to do.
Attachments:
chandra.png (20 Kb)
Posted October 04, 2020
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Breja: It's really quite amazing how some people have menaged, with no help from GOG and against all evidence, to reframe this deal, which is by itself really the only threat here to the integrity of GOG's DRM-free policy, as some necessary compromise/ last ditch effort to save that DRMF-free policy. It really is a stupendous example of how people can fool themselves to see what they want to see.
You (and royal you) should really read the comments on this archive of HumbleBundle from 2012.
When HumbleBundle was all about cross-platform (Not windows only) and DRM-free.
Now they're 75% windows and 90% steam DRM (Rough coarse figures based on the store search).

https://archive.is/k1HU

https://ibb.co/rsmQfx5
https://ibb.co/qkBf2sb
https://ibb.co/H7Kbd5q
https://ibb.co/sWX0VJp
https://ibb.co/8zrmdfw
https://ibb.co/cT2TNQR
Posted October 04, 2020
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McMicroDonalds: Really? like what?
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ReynardFox: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/no_mans_sky_isnt_fully_drmfree
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krakataul: I get what you are saying. Just telling that it's their choice, their business decision and they are the ones who are going to deal with consequences, be it good or bad.
But for us consumers nothing practically changes (as we still get to buy DRM free games from GOG.com if we wish), other than our perception of GOG and what they (used to?) stand for.
For some it will be something unforgivable because of their vision how GOG should operate and ethical principles or some other factor, but for some it is just another business decision. If I were part owner or shareholder of GOG it would be something to worry about, but as a consumer I get to vote with my wallet, no emotions attached.
avatar
ReynardFox: Please, name me a viable alternative platform for DRM free gaming.

If this deal screws GOG, and it in all likelihood WILL screw them (because as it's been pointed out a million times in this thread, almost no one will see the benefit in making DRM-less installers for the site if they can just sell the Epic version through Galaxy), DRM free as a concept will be seen as a failure. Ok, sure, some indies will put out client free installers now and then, but no one will successfully attempt another storefront on the scale of GOG with the goal of DRM free after this.

It's not about brand loyalty, it goes way beyond that, the industry as a whole is becoming more and more anti-consumer, and we gamers who actually value ownership and preservation don't really have anywhere else to go If GOG fails.

We as gamers who value games as an art form that needs to be preserved for everyone now and in the future to experience will ALL suffer.
agreed, by the way I think Zoom Platform will be a viable drm free platform eventually when they get their new website update and games coming. I saw some screens and the new website looks light years better than what they have currently and the ceo has connections which will bring games we never thought would be drm free.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionNEWS: GOG Galaxy to start selling EPIC games(1045 posts)(1045 posts)
(1045 posts)