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Magmarock: oh so they are. Never saw that, thanks. But maybe you can explain this to me in greater detail. Are there distros that are likely to have all 32 & 64 bit packages already installed?
all packages ? no, most certainly not. That would be an insane waste of disk space & bandwidth.
a distro that provides the most common libraries in 32 & 64bit by default? - might possibly exist. but I don't really know for certain.

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Magmarock: No but Windows has system32 syswow64 and Windows side by side aka sxs folder in your windows folder. The dll files contained inside these directories will run most of your programs.
the thing is, the definition of what constitutes "most of your programs" likely differs greatly between the casual windows and linux user. The majority of linux users will only use programs from the distro's repository. These come readily as 64bit version. So they don't need 32bit support. That's why distributions will usually only provide 64bit libraries in their default installation. 32bit libraries can be easily installed on a "as-needed" basis.
I'm not sure if there is a distro that comes with 32bit&64bit system installed as default.
But in general I think that because of the existence of a central package management on linux which allows the user to easily search/install/remove software and customize the OS to their needs, the discussion about what should be part of the default install isn't really important for most people.

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Magmarock: The problem is most of these are located on the server repository and you need a package manager and an index to get the files you need so no internet no software. This also makes it hard to back up and archive software since you need to keep track of all the files needed to make it all work.
pretty sure your package manager has some options to mirror/backup the packages locally. people have already used debian back when internet access was not as normal as it is today ;)
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immi101: pretty sure your package manager has some options to mirror/backup the packages locally. people have already used debian back when internet access was not as normal as it is today ;)
apt-get caches all downloaded .deb packages at /var/cache/apt/archives/ and you can turn off or reconfigure the cache-pruning.

There's also an entire well-documented ecosystem that allows people to run their own private cache servers for the repositories they're pulling packages from, so multiple machines can share a cache of whatever gets installed with completely configurable expiry rules. ("never" is a valid choice).

Finally, the Debian Archive contains a complete archive of all packages that passed through the Debian repositories going back all the way to Debian 2.0 in 1998.

http://archive.debian.org/debian/

I still can't find certain packages for my retro-gaming machines that Microsoft pulled from their site. (It was pure luck that I found a copy of the last Win9x-compatible version of the Windows Scripting Host on some company's client support FTP.)
Post edited February 03, 2018 by ssokolow
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Magmarock: Windows has system32 syswow64 and Windows side by side aka sxs folder in your windows folder. The dll files contained inside these directories will run most of your programs.
Yeah, sure, you should tell GOG team that they don’t need to keep wasting their time bundling redistributables installers for dependencies in their Windows installers, because the base collection of libs pre-installed on Windows will already "run most of your programs"…

I already understood that you knew next to nothing about Linux, but it’s nice to have the confirmation of what I suspected: you know nothing about WIndows too.
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Magmarock: Windows has system32 syswow64 and Windows side by side aka sxs folder in your windows folder. The dll files contained inside these directories will run most of your programs.
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vv221: Yeah, sure, you should tell GOG team that they don’t need to keep wasting their time bundling redistributables installers for dependencies in their Windows installers, because the base collection of libs pre-installed on Windows will already "run most of your programs"…

I already understood that you knew next to nothing about Linux, but it’s nice to have the confirmation of what I suspected: you know nothing about WIndows too.
Wow, now this is what I call a trolling post.

1. I didn't mention VC++ because I had already mentioned it a dozen times before and just presumed you guys already knew. Furthermore not all gog games comes with the VC++ updates. Shadow Warrior 2013 DX 11 edition is one such example. If you attempt to install it on a fresh windows without internet you'll get a missing dll error. Install VC++ 2010 64bit/32bit to fix (you're welcome)

2. I'm really not interested in have a dick measuring contest as to who knows more about what, but the very idea that someone could learn Linux and still not like it and just not allowed to be is it?

3. I don't need to tell gog not to bother with Linux I'll let you do it for me. Speaking of, where is that Linux release of Metro 2033/Last Light. Steam has so why doesn't GOG. I wander if is worth their time getting it.

4. The repository system does a bad job of future proofing software for Linux. For example if you want to fun Fear on Linux and not have it crash and you don't want to buy Crossover then you'll need this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddRQyBmBkw
Post edited February 03, 2018 by Magmarock
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immi101: all packages ? no, most certainly not. That would be an insane waste of disk space & bandwidth.
a distro that provides the most common libraries in 32 & 64bit by default? - might possibly exist. but I don't really know for certain.
This is probably why Windows is such a bigger install size then Linux. But having eveying on the repository has it’s short coming. More on that later.

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immi101: the thing is, the definition of what constitutes "most of your programs" likely differs greatly between the casual windows and linux user. The majority of linux users will only use programs from the distro's repository. These come readily as 64bit version. So they don't need 32bit support. That's why distributions will usually only provide 64bit libraries in their default installation. 32bit libraries can be easily installed on a "as-needed" basis.
I'm not sure if there is a distro that comes with 32bit&64bit system installed as default.
But in general I think that because of the existence of a central package management on linux which allows the user to easily search/install/remove software and customize the OS to their needs, the discussion about what should be part of the default install isn't really important for most people.
This is very true and a good point. Also I should probably mention that on top of sxs system32 and syswow64 programs will still install their own dll files.

As for Linux users sticking mostly to repositories to install software and this is why a lot of dependence aren't pre installed also makes a lot of seance. However this is very problematic for closed source software. It’s impossible to make money with open source but if you want to make serious dosh and build your company you’re going to have to resort to using it. Every company has trade secrets and source code is the trade secrets of the software industry. So another criticism I have for Linux is that in spite of people complaining that companies don’t support it. A lot of distros don't’ do enough to support closed source development imho With open source the ditsro maintainers and maintain the software along with the repository. Not ideal in my opinion but I can see why they do it. With closed source there’s just no way to future proof it once development has ceased which happens a lot with games.


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immi101: pretty sure your package manager has some options to mirror/backup the packages locally. people have already used debian back when internet access was not as normal as it is today ;)
Oh yeah there absolutely is with just about every package manager. But there are two main problems with it. Each backup will only work for very specific distributions and it gets even more complicated when you bring it ppas. So for example say you backup all the .deb files from your archives folder for Linux mint 17.3 They won’t work for 18. so those backups aren't future proof. Also while you can back these up you need direct internet access with an identical machine with identical setup to make sure you get all the right deb files. I wrote a script to do this quite a while ago I’ll link if you’d like to see it. Even if you could access the files from your browser without the package manager and index to help you, you’re going to have a tough time grabbing what you need. As for setting up a local mirror, I have tried it and could never get it to work. While I know a bit about Linux and lots about Windows this is one thing I will admit I could never figure out. I also lost interest in doing it since the mirror would take up so much space and maintenance for what was really just about 5 gigs worth of packages that I wanted from the repository.

I also wish to say to you and to anyone else reading this is that while I’ve had a few people call me a troll... to those are willing to respond with constructive criticism and feedback will get much the same. So thank you for so civil about this. I really appreciate it.
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ssokolow: I still can't find certain packages for my retro-gaming machines that Microsoft pulled from their site. (It was pure luck that I found a copy of the last Win9x-compatible version of the Windows Scripting Host on some company's client support FTP.)
What packages do you need and what games are you trying to run?
Post edited February 03, 2018 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: 3. I don't need to tell gog not to bother with Linux I'll let you do it for me. Speaking of, where is that Linux release of Metro 2033/Last Light. Steam has so why doesn't GOG. I wander if is worth their time getting it.
The GOG guys said they tested it, it was too buggy to meet their standards, and the devs were uninterested in fixing it.

(Remember, GOG offers tech support with a money-back guarantee, unlike Steam.)
Post edited February 03, 2018 by ssokolow
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Magmarock: What packages do you need and what games are you trying to run?
The direct dependencies for games are fine. Even if they don't come with redistributables, I have a history of archiving dependencies alongside my backups of the disks/discs. It's the other Microsoft support stuff that's a pain to track down.

(eg. Patches and utilities that not everyone needs because they correspond to certain hardware configurations or certain use cases.)

For example, I managed to find version 5.6 of the Windows Scripting Host runtime (the last version that'll run on Windows 9x) on some company's client support FTP, but all the results just linked to Microsoft's no-longer-available copy of 5.7 (the last version that'll run on Windows 2000).

Likewise, while setting up the Windows 98SE side of my nostalgia desk, it took an annoying amount of rooting around to find someone who hadn't just linked to Microsoft's site for the Power Toys and Kernel Toys versions that work on Windows 9x.)
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Magmarock: 3. I don't need to tell gog not to bother with Linux I'll let you do it for me. Speaking of, where is that Linux release of Metro 2033/Last Light. Steam has so why doesn't GOG. I wander if is worth their time getting it.
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ssokolow: The GOG guys said they tested it, it was too buggy to meet their standards, and the devs were uninterested in fixing it.

(Remember, GOG offers tech support with a money-back guarantee, unlike Steam.)
I know I was just chastising vv221
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ssokolow: I have a history of archiving dependencies alongside my backups of the disks/discs.
Sounds like the sort of thing I would do

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ssokolow: (eg. Patches and utilities that not everyone needs because they correspond to certain hardware configurations or certain use cases.)

For example, I managed to find version 5.6 of the Windows Scripting Host runtime (the last version that'll run on Windows 9x) on some company's client support FTP, but all the results just linked to Microsoft's no-longer-available copy of 5.7 (the last version that'll run on Windows 2000).

Likewise, while setting up the Windows 98SE side of my nostalgia desk, it took an annoying amount of rooting around to find someone who hadn't just linked to Microsoft's site for the Power Toys and Kernel Toys versions that work on Windows 9x.)
I really like your retro rig but I asked what it was that you need because in all honesty I rarely find a Windows that I can't get to work. Sometimes Microsoft in their infinite wisdom will pull support for certain thing off of their website. Or change it around. I hate it myself, but luckily someone often archives (usually that someone is me) and will offer a link somewhere for you to grab it.
Post edited February 04, 2018 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: I really like your retro rig but I asked what it was that you need because in all honesty I rarely find a Windows that I can't get to work. Sometimes Microsoft in their infinite wisdom will pull support for certain thing off of their website. Or change it around. I hate it myself, but luckily someone often archives (usually that someone is me) and will offer a link somewhere for you to grab it.
I wound up working around and forgetting about most of what I couldn't find, but I'm still keeping an eye out for that Windows Scripting Host 5.7 update.

If I run into anything else, I'll keep you in mind.

(Most of my own archival these days is old resources for writing DOS and Windows 3.1 programs because I want to take my retro rig to the next level. For example, I'm preparing to write a free DOS installer builder because all of the free installer builders I could find are for Windows.)
Post edited February 04, 2018 by ssokolow
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Magmarock: I really like your retro rig but I asked what it was that you need because in all honesty I rarely find a Windows that I can't get to work. Sometimes Microsoft in their infinite wisdom will pull support for certain thing off of their website. Or change it around. I hate it myself, but luckily someone often archives (usually that someone is me) and will offer a link somewhere for you to grab it.
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ssokolow: I wound up working around and forgetting about most of what I couldn't find, but I'm still keeping an eye out for that Windows Scripting Host 5.7 update.

If I run into anything else, I'll keep you in mind.
Well I am thinking of uploading my entire archive here on gog. It's an 8 gig folder on google drive. It contains fixes and tips on how to get trouble games to work. I'm not 1005 sure it would all be legal though. Some of these fixes were made by people and there might be licencing issues or something.
Oh, I also forgot to mention but one of the big fixes that old Linux ports need is generally "get audio working" and everyone agrees that Linux audio has an infamous past ( [url=https://trilug.org/~crimsun/linuxaudio.png]https://trilug.org/~crimsun/linuxaudio.png[/url] ).

It's not perfect these days, but it's getting better. (aRts, ESD, NAS, and xine are dead, most of the rest now have PulseAudio backends, and, thanks to a kernel API named CUSE and a project called osspd, it's possible to redirect the old OSS API through a userspace mixer like PulseAudio or alsa+dmix to complement the PulseAudio backend to libalsa.)

That said, you do still see some applications which need to be reconfigured because, to work around historical bugs in dmix, their default behaviour is to try to claim exclusive access to the audio hardware, which clashes with PulseAudio. (I know StepMania 3.x was one of them.)
Post edited February 04, 2018 by ssokolow
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ssokolow: Oh, I also forgot to mention but one of the big fixes that old Linux ports need is generally "get audio working" and everyone agrees that Linux audio has an infamous past ( [url=https://trilug.org/~crimsun/linuxaudio.png]https://trilug.org/~crimsun/linuxaudio.png[/url] ).

It's not perfect these days, but it's getting better. (aRts, ESD, NAS, and xine are dead, most of the rest now have PulseAudio backends, and, thanks to a kernel API named CUSE and a project called osspd, it's possible to redirect the old OSS API through a userspace mixer like PulseAudio or alsa+dmix to complement the PulseAudio backend to libalsa.)

That said, you do still see some applications which need to be reconfigured because, to work around historical bugs in dmix, their default behaviour is to try to claim exclusive access to the audio hardware, which clashes with PulseAudio. (I know StepMania 3.x was one of them.)
I never had issues with audio in Linux. That's probably jinxed now lol. I also had issues with dependencies. I got so annoyed with it I tried to look at other Linux distros that don't use repositories to see if that helped. I took a look at true OS and Slackware but I have no idea what the hell I'm doing with those lol.
...but who's responsible for the dodgy windows builds?
Post edited February 04, 2018 by timmy010
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timmy010: ...but who's responsible for the dodgy windows builds?
Microsoft naturally just as much as Canonical is responsible for Ubuntu and Unity. Both of which are just awful.
Dear Mr. Linux Van Gog (seriously, I hope you don't get mad, cut your ear off and shot yourself...)

Well, recently I bought Wing Commander III, that was advertised as Windows and Mac only.

But, I installed it via POL, extracted the ISO from the game, and, I'm playing the game in DOSBOX (it's a DOS game).

The question here is: Why it is not available for Linux too, since it is a DOSBOX game, and, easily extracted from the windows .EXE ?

Hum ?

Ok ?

So far, so good, so much so, that I bought WC IV...

Ok ?

Regards,