I live in the US. Over here the American population - and not just the US government - overwhelmingly support Israel regardless of Israelis do. The one-sided support is mostly due to religious grounds: American Christians are extremely pro-Israel. The major US media is also completely pro-Israel, (even though I get all of my news and current information from the Internet.) I personally do not really care either way. I am of Chinese descent and an atheist, so I have no dog in the fight: I am on nobody's side because nobody's on my side.

So. Let's talk about this issue in an international forum. Here we have a lot of Europeans. What say you on this issue?

Knowing we have both users from Israel and users from the Arab world (Pakistan so far) this is not gonna end well.

My only 2 things are this:

1. Its amazing that so much strife is fought for over a little tiny speck of land that is barely noticable on the map.

2. I also never understood the anti Israel sentiment from people not of the Middle East, especially Anti-Zionism. What did Zionism do to warrent such backlash?

I think the popular discourses in Europe are mostly pro-Palestine (as are most US intellectuals, or am I wrong ?).

Unfortunately, things are being drowned in the stupidity of antisemitism and islamophobia, which both instrumentalize the israel/palestine conflict a lot. A lot of antisemits claim that they are merely against israel's policies, and a lot of supporters of Israel's colonialism claim that criticisms are just antisemitisms. So, all these forms of racisms (in the broadest sense) make debates very confused and confusing. You basically can't trust anyone's stance to be devoid of some driving underlying antisemitism or islamophobia, and everyone exploit this.

So, it's shit. And debates around this conflict invarably stink because of these legitimate and unlegitimate cross-accusations of "racism".

My opinion is that building Israel there was a bad, clumsy, short-minded move, but there it is, and it would be just as retarded now to claim it should cease to exist. It's a matter of having that country ruled by less dick-ish pricks (ie: let's hope that the extreme-right will eventually get kicked out of their government at some point, and have decent humans electred instead), and to stop the ongoing colonisations. And from there, try to settle the minds (and give up on any form of 'reparations', becauzse that would be impossible for any side).

On a sidenote, a boycot of the israeli academic institutions is being debated at the AAA (american anthropologist association) nowadays. Good series of articles on that at SavageMinds :

1) http://savageminds.org/2014/06/17/anthropologists-should-embrace-bds/

2) http://savageminds.org/2014/06/24/why-anthropologists-must-boycott-israeli-attacks-on-academic-freedom/

3) http://savageminds.org/2014/07/06/digging-the-occupation-the-politics-of-boycotts-and-archeology-in-israel-bds-pt-3/

4) http://savageminds.org/2014/07/11/embracing-our-better-angels-endorsing-bds-and-the-history-of-the-aaa/

5) http://savageminds.org/2014/07/15/anthropologists-respond-to-frequently-asked-questions-about-a-aaa-bds-resolution/

As ever on this collective blog, the discussions in the comments sections are highly interesting too.

So, to cut a long story short, what you're saying is that the anti-semitic wankers have jumped on the bandwagon of claiming to only be criticising Israel's policies so that they can gain some kind of legitimacy. That certainly wouldn't be wrong.

I don't know (many) people who have a problem with Jews (although I grew up in a strongly right-wing region, meaning that national-socialist sentiment does raise its ugly head), but then most reasonable people draw a distinction between Judaism, the Israeli people, the orthodox settlers and the Israeli government.

The latter two are essentially directly (albeit only partly) responsible for the shit that's going down. The Israeli people are indirectly responsible through their election habits - first with Sharon, then with Netanyahu, although, as I understand it, the West Bank situation played only a very small part in the election campaigns (maybe someone like ET3D can shed more light on that).

Judaism as a whole doesn't really factor into it at all, unless you also wish to blame all of Islam for Hamas or al-Qa'ida (and ironically, many of those resorting to accusations of anti-semitism are indeed themselves quite islamophobic - pot, kettle and all that).

And yes, Hamas is the other responsible party. What you have here is not "Israel" vs. "Palestine". What you have here is Jewish extremism vs. Islamic extremism. Hamas and the extreme Zionist elements of Israel (which Benyamin Netanyahu is essentially a frontman for) are just as bad as each other, which is why genuine advocates of peace in this conflict are few and far between.

Like most reasonable people, I have no beef with anyone based on their creed or race. But I will not condone people thinking that their religion (or lack thereof; I have equally little tolerance for fellow atheists who seem to have nothing better to do than mouth off about religion being the root of all evil) gives them carte blanche to act like cunts.

I can't really support either side. By this time, I think it's pretty clear that neither side is actually interested in solving the problems. If they were, then we would have a solution since at least a decade ago. Yes, the creation of the state of Israel, without caring about the wants of the people who already lived in that area, was an incredibly naive move (in hindsight). Yes, the wars against Israel were the wrong way of addressing this. But by now, people have built their houses and raised their kids there for several generations, and at some point responsible politicians should just get together like grown-ups, accept that both sides will have to make concessions, and work out a solution that will stop the suffering of their people.

the subject would make tasty debate, except it tends to deviate to huge beehive of rage.

What a good thread for a PC gaming forum. :P

Well, the only good thing about this conflict is that the weapons they're using are DRM-free ;-)

No, wait, that's not a good thing. Because if they had DRM, the guns could experience server issues and be shut off remotely so that the fucking idiots would try and sort out their differences properly!

Yes, I'm all for DRM in weapons! (but apparently the NRA isn't)

I won't touch this thread with a 10-foot pole.

Edit: Aaaand I got sucked in...

Hey, leave my genitalia out of this! :O

Let's just say that if Israel had been established in South America (which actually had been seriously considered) you would probably have a pretty strong opinion about the issue.
A few months ago you said that your penis looks like a hair.

...But I do not live in South America, I live in the Caribbean?

Typical for the OP.

There were plenty of nations established in South (and North) America over the last 600 years or so to the detriment and displacement of indigenous populations. Not going to comment on who was right or wrong and who drew first blood in those particular conflicts (especially as different groups of natives and settlers reacted differently) just thought I'd point that highly relevant and comparable fact out.

Nice to see you are keeping track. XD