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Carradice: Some say that shutting off works now a bit like hibernation in the sense that some memory is copied to disk? And that therefore a restart may be required to start clean. Do you know anything solid about that?
Yes, it is called "Windows 10 fast startup". It can be disabled in the power options of Windows 10 (and it is a bit hidden, you must check some "Show the hidden power options too." or something...).

Whenever I am using a fresh Windows 10 installation, even if it is me installing Windows 10 to some other person, the first couple of things I always do are:

1. Disable "fast startup" in the Power options.

2. Set the power button option to "Shutdown" instead of "Sleep" (so that as a last resort in dire situations, you can always try to shut Windows down gracefully by just hitting the power button, instead of having to do a hard cold power off).

3. Disable all the "shut down hard disk after 10 minutes" etc. for the "plugged in" power options. I consider such options useful only when on battery power, in order to save energy.

Half a year ago I was troubleshooting my friend's Windows 10 mouse problems in his work laptop, and he said that even shutting down Windows doesn't fix it. That sounded odd... until I realized that of course he had that stupid "fast startup" enabled, so when he powered up his Windows, it would just come back to the same error state.

So I told him to run the restart instead, and yep, problem solved. He said he never knew there is a difference between shutdown+start and restart, and I am pretty sure most others also think (wrong) that they are the same thing.

Well, they are the same thing, as soon as you disable that stupid fast startup feature.

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Carradice: What I am doing is delaying updates as much as possible, so that if they f*ck it up there is a chance that they fix it or freeze it... Still... Also, not touching some generic drivers that just work: Incredibly, there was the advice of doing so instead of using those of the maker, since the latter might cause trouble O.o
Luckily I am using Windows 10 Pro where there is indeed a way to disable automatic updates completely, so that Windows will NOT install any updates before you run the Windows update manually. I don't think it is possible on Windows 10 Home, at least not without some more serious hacking and/or third-party tools.

But of course MS has hidden that "complete option" behind some services application etc., you have to know where it can be disabled. Merely going to the Windows Update page and "disabling" it there doesn't disable it completely.
Post edited April 16, 2021 by timppu
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timppu: Luckily I am using Windows 10 Pro where there is indeed a way to disable automatic updates completely, so that Windows will NOT install any updates before you run the Windows update manually. I don't think it is possible on Windows 10 Home, at least not without some more serious hacking and/or third-party tools.

But of course MS has hidden that "complete option" behind some services application etc., you have to know where it can be disabled. Merely going to the Windows Update page and "disabling" it there doesn't disable it completely.
I imagine that the people that want control over the update process mostly mean blocking automatic installation of the feature updates (like v1903, 1909, etc...), but not necessarily the security updates. It's possible (I did it), but some serious "tweaking" is involved.
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Carradice: Some say that shutting off works now a bit like hibernation in the sense that some memory is copied to disk? And that therefore a restart may be required to start clean. Do you know anything solid about that?
Shutdown is indeed a bit like hibernation, is called "fast startup" and was introduced in Win8. Works fine on my opinion.
You can bypass by pressing shift while shutdown on the start menu or using the command "sutdown /s".
To turn off on Windows 8.1 right click on start menu -> Energy and Power -> ask for password -> scroll down. The settings are greyed out and must be enabled at the top of the page.
For Win10 you can google "disable fast startup".

Edit: I'm running Win 8.1 with Classic Shell for so long that can't even remember if you can open the Win+X menu with mouse right click on stock garbage start menu (funny how similar to Gnome 3).
Post edited April 16, 2021 by Dark_art_
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timppu: Luckily I am using Windows 10 Pro where there is indeed a way to disable automatic updates completely, so that Windows will NOT install any updates before you run the Windows update manually. I don't think it is possible on Windows 10 Home, at least not without some more serious hacking and/or third-party tools.
It's quite easy actually, if you're using wifi instead of cable, just tick the "metered connection" box. No updates what so ever. That is, until you connect to a new network and forgot to tick the damn box...
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teceem: I imagine that the people that want control over the update process mostly mean blocking automatic installation of the feature updates (like v1903, 1909, etc...), but not necessarily the security updates. It's possible (I did it), but some serious "tweaking" is involved.
Not sure, but I want to control it all, so that only I decide when to install even security updates.

I even get irritated that by default e.g. Ubuntu seems to auto-install what it considers as important security fixes. This sometimes causes problems on e.g. Ubuntu servers where the /boot partition runs out of space as it secretly runs updates, without cleaning old stuff away (which can be performed with e.g. "sudo apt autoremove").

Hence also on such Ubuntu servers, I go to disable such automatic updates. Linux Mint is saner that by default it automatically checks if there are updates and informs you of them. That is ok to me, alerting you of updates, especially as Linux Mint does not nag you about them, but simply presents an exclamation mark on top of the Update Manager icon. No pop ups or stupid shit like that.
Post edited April 16, 2021 by timppu
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teceem: I imagine that the people that want control over the update process mostly mean blocking automatic installation of the feature updates (like v1903, 1909, etc...), but not necessarily the security updates. It's possible (I did it), but some serious "tweaking" is involved.
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timppu: Not sure, but I want to control it all, so that only I decide when to install even security updates.
As far as I can tell, all my updates have to be confirmed manually - but feature updates are never in that list, I have to run the windows update assistant if I want them.
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timppu: Not sure, but I want to control it all, so that only I decide when to install even security updates.
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teceem: As far as I can tell, all my updates have to be confirmed manually - but feature updates are never in that list, I have to run the windows update assistant if I want them.
I don't know if different Windows 10 editions behave differently, but after disabling automatic updates in the Windows services application, it basically goes like this:

Nothing gets updated (or I am not even alerted of available updates), except if I manually go to the Windows Update tool.

If I do, then it starts right away checking and downloading/installing any security updates. This already is a bit odd to me, why doesn't it just tell me which updates are available, and then let me decide whether to download and install them? But whatever, Windows likes to be "proactive", ie. do things right away if I happen to go to the update tool, and at least it doesn't do anything (apparently) before I do.

On top of that, under "optional updates" I may see those feature updates, and I have to specifically click on them in order to initiate their download and installation.
Windows and (full) control, now that's an oxymoron, if ever I've seen one.
It's somewhat funny and at the same time very concerning when many users think they have control over their OS or data.
If anything, Microsoft should pay the users for all the crap they're pulling. By default p2p updates, keylogging, adware, malware and spyware, all in the same package. Amazing...
And I won't mention the updates, which occasionally can brick a system.
low rated
that is the best in win10 ,
do you know much time it needs to load win from turned off pc? like 3 seconds :P
the only updates so far that bricked the system were linux ones for me
Post edited April 16, 2021 by Orkhepaj
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timppu: I don't know if different Windows 10 editions behave differently, but after disabling automatic updates in the Windows services application, it basically goes like this:

Nothing gets updated (or I am not even alerted of available updates), except if I manually go to the Windows Update tool.

If I do, then it starts right away checking and downloading/installing any security updates. This already is a bit odd to me, why doesn't it just tell me which updates are available, and then let me decide whether to download and install them? But whatever, Windows likes to be "proactive", ie. do things right away if I happen to go to the update tool, and at least it doesn't do anything (apparently) before I do.

On top of that, under "optional updates" I may see those feature updates, and I have to specifically click on them in order to initiate their download and installation.
(I use Windows 10 Pro)
I've done a lot more than just disabling the automatic updates service. In fact, that service isn't even disabled for me.
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Orkhepaj: that is the best in win10 ,
do you know much time it needs to load win from turned off pc? like 3 seconds :P
the only updates so far that bricked the system were linux ones for me
Funny you should mention that, a distribution like Solus puts Windows 10 to shame when it comes to boot time on an SSD.
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Orkhepaj: that is the best in win10 ,
do you know much time it needs to load win from turned off pc? like 3 seconds :P
the only updates so far that bricked the system were linux ones for me
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patrikc: Funny you should mention that, a distribution like Solus puts Windows 10 to shame when it comes to boot time on an SSD.
so faster than 3secs?
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Orkhepaj: so faster than 3secs?
https://fossbytes.com/linux-based-solus-os-now-boots-in-flat-1-2-seconds/
I have used computers since the 1980s.

Both Windows and Linux updates have made the computer unusable but it is a more common occurance on Linux, say maybe once in two years. Where Linux wins is when you want to do something about that as reverting to the previously installed kernel is incredibly easy and on Manjaro I can also return to the previous version of other files, though that may lead to incompatibility problems if something else depends on that file being a certain version or newer.

Oh and about booting quickly: Windows is not really usable as soon as the desktop is visible, neither is my Linux installations due to a single culprit, Skype, a Microsoft program...
Post edited April 16, 2021 by Themken
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Themken: Both Windows and Linux updates have made the computer unusable but it is a more common occurance on Linux, say maybe once in two years.
Outside of working just fine most times, Linux has the bad habit of crashing miserably when it does crash and relies on the user to debug it and fix it. I have a PC where the Linux kernel locks up the system (kernel panic) randomly after boot because it can not properly detect an optical audio out port (which I'm not using anyway). One kernel boot parameter later and the problem is fixed, but if you don't know how to debug these things and are new to the OS, it does make it seem like a daunting proposition. Albeit that system is not exactly what I'd call "common hardware" either.

There are people who have run Linux on multiple PCs for many years and never had a problem. In the past it was common occurrence to check the internet for the Linux compatibility of a laptop before buying it (PC were generally fine), but now it's gotten a lot better, up to the point where my last laptop purchase was done without any prior checks and I had no nasty surprises.