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The JRPG Days are not over yet!
You've been playing Zwei: The Arges Adventure and Legrand Legacy: Tale of the Fatebounds while snagging genre classics on the cheap from our jRPG Days sale. Now it's time to take a look behind the scenes: team leader Ken Berry and localization producer Thomas Lipschultz have taken some time to chat with us about how XSEED handles the release and localization of their beloved JRPG series.
The interview is broken down into two parts, for convenience. Stay tuned for Part 2 tomorrow, January 30.

So, let's start with a quick year in review – from your professional point of view, has 2017 been good to Japanese games in the West?

Ken: Yes, I would say that 2017 has been a very good year for Japanese games in the West. The obvious big winner is Nintendo with their extremely successful launch of the Switch, as I remember some Japanese executives being concerned whether the idea of one machine being both a home console and a portable machine could succeed in North America where public transportation is not nearly as prevalent as Japan.
The PC platform also continues to get more support from the Japanese gaming industry. Not only are you seeing more instances of simultaneous PC launches with the console release, but they seem to be gradually accepting the idea of DRM-free on PC as well, which had always been a huge challenge in the past because they would often mistakenly equate “DRM-free” to “free.”

A lot can be said about different sensibilities in Japan vs. the West. In the past year, maybe more than ever, sexuality, sexualization, and consent, are talked about in mainstream Western culture – taboos are being broken and lines being drawn. Has this had an impact on your approach and your work?

Tom: As a company, I think it’s definitely made us stop and take stock of a game’s content a lot earlier in the process than ever before, so we know well in advance whether there will be any potentially problematic content, and can prepare ourselves to deal with that content as production ramps up.
For me specifically, it’s been kind of an inner struggle, as I think a lot of people are aware that I have a personal zero-tolerance policy for censorship in video games, along with a fairly broad definition of what constitutes censorship (for me, it consists of any content changes made not out of legal or contractual necessity, but solely in an attempt to avoid offending or upsetting members of the target audience). Despite this, I do fully understand that from a business standpoint – and even from a moral standpoint – it’s always best to avoid upsetting your fans, because obviously, an upset fan is not going to remain a fan for very long, and signing off on upsetting or troublesome language or imagery is never something anyone wants to do!
The problem I have, though, is that I truly do consider video games – ALL video games – to be art, and just as it wouldn’t feel right to me if someone painted over offensive material in a painting, edited out offensive material in a book, or cut offensive material from a film, I don’t want to see anyone (least of all us) editing out offensive material in games. My thought is, if it’s that offensive, then we probably shouldn’t be releasing the game at all – though that’s obviously not always a realistic option.
Recently, however, with all the news that’s come out about systemic sexual harassment and abuse in Hollywood and elsewhere, as well as the issues being faced by the LGBTQ community in this modern political climate, it’s become much harder to justify maintaining a zero-tolerance approach – and with a lot of Japanese games starting to really push the boundaries of “good taste” more and more, the looming threat of censorship has become much larger and more imposing than ever, and certainly more of a beast to fight on multiple levels. And it’s really not a battle I WANT to fight – I’d rather just localize games that everybody can enjoy!
I still hold firm in my belief, however, that if we want video games to be classified as an art form on par with books, films, and paintings, we need to maintain zero tolerance for censorship in localization, no matter how offensive the content we’re localizing may be. And if there’s any positive to be gained by doing so, it’s that the presence of offensive content in localized titles will spark much-needed discussion about those topics, and hopefully lead to a dialogue on the state of the industry in Japan, possibly even resulting in creators being a little more cognizant of people outside their tight-knit circle of acquaintances when designing new titles from here on out.
But for the immediate future, I believe content alteration will occur a little more often in the West than it has before (hopefully not by us, but regrettably, that isn’t outside the realm of possibility!), while little else will change for the industry overseas. My solace lies in the thought that we’ll just keep getting more games like the Zwei titles to work on: superb examples of classic action JRPG design with content that’s often snarky and a little mischievous, but never crosses the line into offensive territory, and thus isn’t at any risk of being toned down in localization. Those remain a joy to work on, and the more games of that sort I’m given, the less worried I’ll be about censorship moving forward.

The titles. We need to talk about the game titles...
What is it that makes Japanese naming conventions so different? How do you approach localizing a game's title, and what does it take to make it work in the West?


Tom: I don’t think most Japanese naming conventions are all that different, honestly, save for the fact that they’re usually much longer than the names we tend to see here (with subtitles on top of subtitles, e.g. “Corpse Party: BloodCovered: …Repeated Fear”). Which, I believe, is mostly attributable to some general differences in the way games are advertised in Japan, with more text meaning a bigger poster on the wall and more space allotted to discuss the game in print… not to mention the ability to strike a pose and rattle off a long name, looking and sounding kind of dorkily awesome in the process!
In the Western world, though, we’re definitely all about succinct naming: something short and to the point, that rolls off the tongue, with one or two words being the ideal. Especially if it’s unique enough to be Googlable! We want the name to be easy to remember so that prospective fans can always find information on it at a moment’s notice, even if they haven’t heard anyone talking about the game for quite some time.
I assume you’re speaking more in terms of translations, though (“Sen no Kiseki” → “Trails of Cold Steel”), as well as the rare addition of subtitles (“Zwei!!” → “Zwei: The Arges Adventure”). In the former case, the goal is to come up with something that remains relatively true to the original Japanese but still sounds snappy and natural in English, with bonus points for picking a name that perfectly fits the tone and content of the game (as “Trails of Cold Steel” most definitely does).
And in the latter case, we were really just trying to avoid drawing attention to the fact that we were releasing “Zwei II” before “Zwei” – a luxury afforded us by the fact that the two games tell standalone stories, and necessitated by the fact that Zwei II was finished and ready for release quite a bit sooner. We considered numerous possible subtitles for both games, but ultimately chose “The Ilvard Insurrection” for Zwei II because… well, it preserved the acronym, “Zwei:II”!
We attempted something similar with the first game, but despite our best attempts, we couldn’t come up with any viable names that would form the acronyms ONE, EINS, or even WAN, nor any single-word subtitles beginning with the letter I. We settled on AA to preserve the double lettering of Ilvard Insurrection, and because A is the first letter of the alphabet… and also because the first Zwei is a pretty tough game, so we anticipated a lot of people would be saying “AAAAAA” when playing it!
Post edited January 29, 2018 by maladr0Id
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kohlrak: I came in here expecting politics. Looks like i found it.
I don't see any politics, just a salt mine/butthurt quarry.
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Totenglocke: If you're referring to the NES titles specifically, it's because Nintendo didn't want to risk any possible negative attention, from atheists or Christians, so every game on NES had anything that could be even slightly construed as "religious" removed. They even changed medkits to remove the red cross because they didn't want someone to potentially consider it religious. While I think it's silly, I also understand why they did that, because the '80s were full of fanatical Christians who believed that videos games, RPGs, etc (especially Dungeons and Dragons) were teaching kids to worship the devil. I don't know how old you are, but I remember those absurd times quite well. They actually weren't that different from the present outrage culture, the difference being that back then it came from the right-wing and most people in the media / entertainment industry mocked it, whereas now it's coming from the left-wing and (since most people in the media / entertainment industry identify as left-wing), it's being promoted. Jack Thompson's calls for censorship were no different than the calls we see now, but since Jack's political party wasn't the "correct" one, the gaming industry in the '90s mocked him...whereas now the people calling for censorship get front page promotion on most major gaming sites.
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kohlrak: Oh, believe me, i'm well aware. I remember when pokemon evolution was considered atheist propaganda (actually ,to this day, i really question why they chose the word "evolve" instead of something a little less sensitive and maybe even more accurate [and it's not like they couldn't make their own word like they already do in japan]).

Honestly, the removal of symbols was not very helpful in the process. This is what we see with censorship: it keeps people ignorant and in the dark. If you straight up expose people to the truth, the ones in the wrong expose themselves. And, yes, being right-wing, i agree whole heartedly.

Don't get me wrong, though, i think enabling and disabling some things in the options menu like jiggle levels, blood levels, etc is still relevant. Let offended people have a choice if you want to try catering to everyone. Which is something else: companies need to see that they aren't going to please everyone. I don't want to sit and play some kid's game all the time. If you want my money, maybe i want to see some lady-bits. Accept that not everything you sell can be accepted by everyone, and that maybe you should focus on your target audience. If you're afraid that parents won't let kids play Dead or Alive for it's sexual content, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe kids shouldn't be playing games about senselessly beating the snot out of someone because it's how some people want to take over the world. Then again, why's there so much boobage in a fighting game?

Either way, devs should be just as conscious of an audience they leave behind when they're trying to target a new audience. It's all too common anymore to rely on a fanbase always being there.
I agree, it would be great if game developers worried about potential backlash from the perpetually offended would just have an "adult mode" toggle. Sadly, they'd still get bullied because the actual goal of the perpetually offended is just to ruin everything for everyone. They don't care that there would be a way for them to not see the "offensive" content, they're mad that ANYONE might be able to enjoy it.

But really, the devs need to just realize that the people complaining about these things are NOT their audience. Maybe make some subset of forum where you can prove that you actually purchased their games so they can get feedback from their actual fans? I don't know a solution to that....but we do know that the people upset about sex / violence / attractive women / etc aren't their actual customers and thus the devs should just ignore them.
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Thomas_Jackerson: I think the issue people have with your statements, Tom, is that they are misconstrued as you speaking for the company. If you clearly state "I, personally, sometimes really don't want to see certain content, but I will never 'discuss the non-inclusion of such content with creators'." then people should be satisfied.
Because that is how it really comes across most of the time and, knowing XSEED and having enjoyed titles such as Akiba(s)trip, it would be just wrong if all this gives the wrong message to people.
Good point. And that is absolutely accurate: this was my own personal response to that question, and you can rest assured that I never, ever would even dream of discussing the non-inclusion of content with creators. (If anything, I like to suggest the inclusion of additional content, like the male strip portraits in Akiba's Trip; there's no better way to be inclusive than to make sure EVERYBODY gets some nice fanservice!). ;)

Also, please do bear in mind that... you guys may not be the intended audience for my answer in the first place, potentially? See, the biggest issue that stands in the way of abolishing censorship in gaming is the sheer number of pro-censorship advocates, and their influence on the industry as a whole. And the only way we're going to one day rid ourselves of censorship is to try to appeal to their sensibilities, and convince them that censorship is not the answer. Which can only be achieved by reaching some sort of common ground with them, then working from there to show them how censorship damages even their own agendas in the end.

If, however, they are immediately alienated and told that their concerns are irrelevant and their point of view is flat-out wrong, they'll simply be galvanized in their existing notions. It's important to respect those who disagree, and try to see things from their side as best as possible, and I believe I'm in a good position to do that since I genuinely dislike a lot of the content that comes out of Japan, and -- as stated -- personally wish some of it wouldn't be there in the first place.

But I can't stress enough how absolutely crucial I feel it is that that content be preserved in localization. I've staked my career on that fact in the past, and would gladly do it again.

So to anyone reading this, I would ask that you please not doubt my convictions here. I may not sound quite hardcore enough for you, but rest assured, you have an ally in me.

I'm just hoping that even the pro-censorship contingency can see me as an ally as well, and I can help bridge the gap between the two sides and convert some to the anti-censorship camp. ;)

-Tom
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wyrdwad: All I can say is, please see this post, which perfectly sums up what I'm trying to say:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/interview_xseed_talks_jrpg_localization_and_marketing_part_1_93300/post57

If you don't agree with this, then I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. But hopefully, this extremely well-put summary of my points here will help put what I'm saying into better perspective for you.

-Tom
Oh, thanks for the link my man. I appreciate being redirected to the very same post that I came on this thread for.

Let's just assume that I just posted my previous post because I didn't know about anything you posted, and thus re-read your interview, shall we?

...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING COMPLETE*

Really dude, it's even worse than I thought.

Let's count and dissect the pertinent issues, shall we?

Exhibit A: Allowing irrelevant political topics influence the ethics of localization.
You said that the systemic sexual harassment issues in hollywood or LGBTQ issues makes it more difficult to have a "zero tolerance" policy against censoring games in localization.

What, may I ask, does this have anything to do with localizing Japanese video games? When was simply brushing aside the idiots that try to push political agendas out of the question? The fact that you're even bringing this up shows that you or someone else in your company are being fearful. You guys are saying you're willing to let these issues or the people that complain about them influence your localization decisions.

Are you still letting your ban from NeoGAF get to your head?

Exhibit B: An explicit unwillingness to push boundaries.
I said this before, and I'll say it again. Besides from the Senran Kagura series, you guys aren't willing to localize anything with similar content. The fact that you wish for "dialogue" leading to the Japanese creators being more "cognizant" (I.E--self-censoring before the Japanese release) reinforces this.

Newsflash: You're never going to find Japanese titles that won't offend or anger anybody to any extent. Most titles from Japan are created with the intention of catering to a specific niche, not everyone. While I can't force your company to localize a particular title, everything you said flies in the face of your purpoted anti-censorship stance we all respected you for. Even if you followed the principle of anti-censorship to the word, it sure as heck isn't following it in spirit.

It's not censorship, it's avoidance! Amirite, or am I right?

Enjoy working on Zwei, I sure as hell wasn't interested in buying it--For all its "inoffensiveness", it just looks plain as hell.

Exhibit C: Persistent doubt and negativity pertaining to the state of the localization market.
You believe that in the "immediate future", you think content alterations will occur a little more often in the west. What exactly makes you think of this, pray tell? SJWs complaining? Soccer moms complaining? President Trump complaining? Where's the fire?

We've seen more games localized uncut over the past 5 years that we wouldn't have imagined being brought here back then--Senran Kagura, Gal Gun, Valkyrie Drive, Gahkthun of the Golden Lightning, etc. We haven't seen anything trying to influence Japanese games that can't be safely ignored. Just what are you so afraid of?

Note: I'm a NA gamer, so I couldn't give a damn about what happens in Europe. If you think that whatever happens there should have an impact on what goes on in localizations in the NA region, then that's even more reason to question you and your company's willingness to be respectful to a game's content.

I don't know about anyone else here, but with all of this going on, I have no reason to believe that your stance toward censorship is as "zero tolerance" as you might think.

Sure, you guys aren't censoring, but-Oh wait, you guys removed the ages in all the Senran Kagura games and caused the whole "KKK Witches" mess with Akiba's Beat. Maybe I'm onto something after all.
Post edited January 30, 2018 by grgspunk
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kohlrak: I came in here expecting politics. Looks like i found it.
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TARFU: I don't see any politics, just a salt mine/butthurt quarry.
The left-right polarization is here. It's politics. Don't confuse the two, though it's pretty hard not to: they're kinda the same. You have the butthurt conservatives who are sick of all the regulation causing the problems, and you have the butthurt millenials who complain they can't play the game the same way as the boomers and get free stuff for next to nothing.

And yes, I was born in 89.

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kohlrak: Oh, believe me, i'm well aware. I remember when pokemon evolution was considered atheist propaganda (actually ,to this day, i really question why they chose the word "evolve" instead of something a little less sensitive and maybe even more accurate [and it's not like they couldn't make their own word like they already do in japan]).

Honestly, the removal of symbols was not very helpful in the process. This is what we see with censorship: it keeps people ignorant and in the dark. If you straight up expose people to the truth, the ones in the wrong expose themselves. And, yes, being right-wing, i agree whole heartedly.

Don't get me wrong, though, i think enabling and disabling some things in the options menu like jiggle levels, blood levels, etc is still relevant. Let offended people have a choice if you want to try catering to everyone. Which is something else: companies need to see that they aren't going to please everyone. I don't want to sit and play some kid's game all the time. If you want my money, maybe i want to see some lady-bits. Accept that not everything you sell can be accepted by everyone, and that maybe you should focus on your target audience. If you're afraid that parents won't let kids play Dead or Alive for it's sexual content, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe kids shouldn't be playing games about senselessly beating the snot out of someone because it's how some people want to take over the world. Then again, why's there so much boobage in a fighting game?

Either way, devs should be just as conscious of an audience they leave behind when they're trying to target a new audience. It's all too common anymore to rely on a fanbase always being there.
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Totenglocke: I agree, it would be great if game developers worried about potential backlash from the perpetually offended would just have an "adult mode" toggle. Sadly, they'd still get bullied because the actual goal of the perpetually offended is just to ruin everything for everyone. They don't care that there would be a way for them to not see the "offensive" content, they're mad that ANYONE might be able to enjoy it.

But really, the devs need to just realize that the people complaining about these things are NOT their audience. Maybe make some subset of forum where you can prove that you actually purchased their games so they can get feedback from their actual fans? I don't know a solution to that....but we do know that the people upset about sex / violence / attractive women / etc aren't their actual customers and thus the devs should just ignore them.
Then you'll have people buying games just to complain. And it's not like crackers don't exist, which takes out the DRM way of proving you bought a game. Frankly, companies should be more open, post open polls and things like that. All too often has someone from a particulr political organization got famous for being 100+ McDonalds customers simply from having 100+ different email accounts, even if the organization consisted of 2 people. Now, scale it up. It's pretty obvious that that's been what has been going on at youtube.
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wyrdwad: All I can say is, please see this post, which perfectly sums up what I'm trying to say:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/interview_xseed_talks_jrpg_localization_and_marketing_part_1_93300/post57

If you don't agree with this, then I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. But hopefully, this extremely well-put summary of my points here will help put what I'm saying into better perspective for you.

-Tom
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grgspunk: Oh, thanks for the link my man. I appreciate being redirected to the very same post that I came on this thread for.

Let's just assume that I just posted my previous post because I didn't know about anything you posted, and thus re-read your interview, shall we?

...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING IN PROGRESS*
...*RE-READING COMPLETE*

Really dude, it's even worse than I thought.

Let's count dissect the pertinent issues, shall we?

Exhibit A: Allowing irrelevant political topics influence the ethics of localization.
You said that the systemic sexual harassment issues in hollywood or LGBTQ issues makes it more difficult to have a "zero tolerance" policy against censoring games in localization.

What, may I ask, does this have anything to do with localizing Japanese video games? When was simply brushing aside the idiots that try to push political agendas simply out of the question? The fact that you're even bringing this up shows that you or someone else in your company are fearful and are willing to let these issues or the people that complain about them influence your localization decisions.

Are you still letting your ban from NeoGAF get to your head?

Exhibit B: An explicit unwillingness to push boundaries.
I said this before, and I'll say it again. Besides from the Senran Kagura series, you guys aren't willing to localize anything with similar content. The fact that you wish for "dialogue" leading to the Japanese creators being more "cognizant" (I.E--self-censoring before the Japanese release) reinforces this.

Newsflash: You're never going to find Japanese titles that won't offend or anger anybody to any extent. Most titles from Japan are created with the intention of catering to a specific niche, not everyone. While I can't force your company to localize a particular title, everything you said flies in the face of your purpoted anti-censorship stance we all respected you for. Even if you followed the principle of anti-censorship to the word, it sure as heck isn't following it in spirit.

It's not censorship, it's avoidance! Amirite, or am I right?

Enjoy working on Zwei, I sure as hell wasn't interested in buying it--For all its "inoffensiveness", it just looks plain as hell.

Exhibit C: Persistent doubt and negativity pertaining to the state of the localization market.
You believe that in the "immediate future", you think content alterations will occur a little more often in the west. What exactly makes you think of this, pray tell? SJWs complaining? Soccer moms complaining? President Trump complaining? Where's the fire?

We've seen more games localized uncut over the past 5 years that we wouldn't have imagined being brought here back then. We haven't seen anything trying to influence Japanese games that can't be safely ignored. Just what are you so afraid of?

Note: I'm a NA gamer, so I couldn't give a damn about what happens in Europe. If you think that whatever happens there should have an impact on what goes on in localizations in the NA region, then that's even more reason to question you and your company's willingness to be respectful to a game's content.

I don't know about anyone else here, but with all of this going on, I have no reason to believe that your stance toward censorship is as "zero tolerance" as you might think.

Sure, you guys aren't censoring, but-Oh wait, you guys removed the ages in all the Senran Kagura games and caused the whole "KKK Witches" mess with Akiba's Beat. Maybe I'm onto something after all.
As much as I like XSEED, this guy's got a point.
Post edited January 30, 2018 by kohlrak
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Thomas_Jackerson: I think the issue people have with your statements, Tom, is that they are misconstrued as you speaking for the company. If you clearly state "I, personally, sometimes really don't want to see certain content, but I will never 'discuss the non-inclusion of such content with creators'." then people should be satisfied.
Because that is how it really comes across most of the time and, knowing XSEED and having enjoyed titles such as Akiba(s)trip, it would be just wrong if all this gives the wrong message to people.
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wyrdwad: Good point. And that is absolutely accurate: this was my own personal response to that question, and you can rest assured that I never, ever would even dream of discussing the non-inclusion of content with creators. (If anything, I like to suggest the inclusion of additional content, like the male strip portraits in Akiba's Trip; there's no better way to be inclusive than to make sure EVERYBODY gets some nice fanservice!). ;)

Also, please do bear in mind that... you guys may not be the intended audience for my answer in the first place, potentially? See, the biggest issue that stands in the way of abolishing censorship in gaming is the sheer number of pro-censorship advocates, and their influence on the industry as a whole. And the only way we're going to one day rid ourselves of censorship is to try to appeal to their sensibilities, and convince them that censorship is not the answer. Which can only be achieved by reaching some sort of common ground with them, then working from there to show them how censorship damages even their own agendas in the end.

If, however, they are immediately alienated and told that their concerns are irrelevant and their point of view is flat-out wrong, they'll simply be galvanized in their existing notions. It's important to respect those who disagree, and try to see things from their side as best as possible, and I believe I'm in a good position to do that since I genuinely dislike a lot of the content that comes out of Japan, and -- as stated -- personally wish some of it wouldn't be there in the first place.

But I can't stress enough how absolutely crucial I feel it is that that content be preserved in localization. I've staked my career on that fact in the past, and would gladly do it again.

So to anyone reading this, I would ask that you please not doubt my convictions here. I may not sound quite hardcore enough for you, but rest assured, you have an ally in me.

I'm just hoping that even the pro-censorship contingency can see me as an ally as well, and I can help bridge the gap between the two sides and convert some to the anti-censorship camp. ;)

-Tom
Including everyone is what actual diversity is, if the others side could that we'd have a lot less issues. I mean in the end diversity should mean you have more not less.

Thank you for taking time to make your position clear.
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I won't read everything that has transpired so far.

I will just say, most people against censorship are predisposed and paranoid due to recent events leading to severe censorship.

I will give Tom the benefit of doubt. As someone who is a writer, and studied translation, I know the difficulty of dealing with such things. Sometimes one is forced to work with something one finds objectionable or one fears could cause trouble. But I think we all agree it is an act of professionalism to just bear with it or refuse to work with it.

Recently an associate of mine requested me to help her with a transcript of a talk at some relevant cultural institution. As I worked on it, we both agreed there was clearly an ideological agenda we both found objectionable in the material we worked with, as well as objectionable behavior from the participants.

Still we did our job and left everything in proper fashion. Making sure the transcript and translation were accurate to the source and not removing anything (Not counting the inaudible yells and whispers from some participants which could not be translated because of the noise making them hard to understand).

The duty of a decent localization team is making sure the source material could be understood. Removing content or altering it is censorship, and in this day and age, that does not go unpunished.

Fortunately I believe the best way is to vote with one's wallet. If the work is poorly done, the product is not purchased. And sooner or later, the localization team will understand they are alienating their target audience or go out of business.

As a writer working on a piece of work which might spark controversy in the current easily offended environment, I would rather die than let my work be violated by others in order to not offend. I know my target audience would love it.

The arguments of censoring to broaden the reach or to not offend are as foolish as if Sega, especially Sega of America, decided, back in the 80s and 90s, to make Sonic games more similar to Mario or Rockman. People would have hated Sega for doing so!

And the more we get to see from the source material, the angrier fans get when they realize they got a neutered version.

Learn from 4-Kids! They ruined themselves by censoring!
high rated
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grgspunk: What, may I ask, does this have anything to do with localizing Japanese video games? When was simply brushing aside the idiots that try to push political agendas simply out of the question? The fact that you're even bringing this up shows that you or someone else in your company are fearful and are willing to let these issues or the people that complain about them influence your localization decisions.
You're correct. There are people in this company who would allow these issues to influence their localization decisions. I even stated as such in my original answer, I believe.

I take umbrage with you calling it "brushing aside idiots," however, as these are absolutely legitimate concerns that affect a very large number of people. The people who are concerned are NOT idiots, and never have been.

I believe that these concerns are not enough to warrant censoring content. But make no mistake: I absolutely understand the desire to do so, even if I don't personally agree with the conclusion. If that makes me a sell-out in your eyes, then so be it.

But I'm still a sell-out who refuses to let acts of censorship go unchallenged, no matter the cost.

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grgspunk: I said this before, and I'll say it again. Besides from the Senran Kagura series, you guys aren't willing to localize anything with similar content. The fact that you wish for "dialogue" leading to the Japanese creators being more "cognizant" (I.E--self-censoring before the Japanese release) reinforces this.

Newsflash: You're never going to find Japanese titles that won't offend or anger anybody to any extent. Most titles from Japan are created with the intention of catering to a specific niche, not everyone. While I can't force your company to localize a particular title, everything you said flies in the face of your purpoted anti-censorship stance we all respected you for. Even if you followed the principle of anti-censorship to the word, it sure as heck isn't following it in spirit.

It's not censorship, it's avoidance! Amirite, or am I right?
I've said from the very beginning that if a game makes a publisher so uncomfortable that they intend to censor it, they shouldn't be publishing that game in the first place. I can't comment on any of the "Senran Kagura-like" titles you're referring to specifically (though I can assure you that the content of those games was not a major source of concern for us), but I take absolutely no issue with localization companies picking and choosing their games based on what they feel best represents them as a publisher.

We've turned down games in the past because we personally didn't think they were very good games, even though fans really wanted us to work on them. And there's not a damned thing wrong with that. If we can't take pride in the games we work on, then why even bother working on them?

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grgspunk: Enjoy working on Zwei, I sure as hell wasn't interested in buying it--For all its "inoffensiveness", it just looks plain as hell.
Let's not say things we can't take back. Zwei is an AMAZING game. Favorite translation I've ever done. If you're not interested in buying it... well, that's your loss. Because you are totally missing out.

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grgspunk: Exhibit C: Persistent doubt and negativity pertaining to the state of the localization market.
You believe that in the "immediate future", you think content alterations will occur a little more often in the west. What exactly makes you think of this, pray tell? SJWs complaining? Soccer moms complaining? President Trump complaining? Where's the fire?
The extreme amount of censorship that's occurring in recent game releases. On a level unseen in the entire decade preceding this one. Not since the '90s have so many games been released with such heavy censorship, and there's really very little sign of it stopping.

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grgspunk: I don't know about anyone else here, but with all of this going on, I have no reason to believe that your stance toward censorship is as "zero tolerance" as you might think.

Sure, you guys aren't censoring, but-Oh wait, you guys removed the ages in all the Senran Kagura games and caused the whole "KKK Witches" mess with Akiba's Beat. Maybe I'm onto something after all.
And as you might recall, I fought tooth and nail against both of those alterations.

-Tom
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bluekamikaze: When the drawings on paper or a screen come to life and start killing folks call me back. This is like saying words on a piece of paper are as dangerous as gun. If people aren't free to express themselves then they aren't free.
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paladin181: That's not what I'm saying at all. Extreme examples, but say an artist creates his art by killing a cat and splaying it out, or painting an image using its blood as paint. Or the artist uses human subjects, killing and posing them to create a scene. It's still art. It causes physical harm though. Don't marginalize psychological harm that is caused to people like it's something they choose to be bothered by. Again, I can't even believe I'm taking this side of this discussion, but it does need to be said.
This seems like a red herring to me, people saying "censorship is bad" are not saying "anything is good so long as someone says it's art". The assertion is that expression needs to be an open space so that ideas which may not be popular among either the masses or the authority structure of a given place are still able to be expressed.

Emotional distress, should not be pushed into a false equivalence with violence.
Violence is something done to an individual, expression (especially in the context of things like books, movies, music, games, etc) is external to an individual that they interact with and can choose not to interact with (if they are under duress being forced to interact with it the resolution is not censoring the expression the resolution is removing the force creating the situation of duress).
It is true that people do not simply choose how they feel about or react to an idea or experience, however they do choose how they act both in making the decision to partake of the content and in standing up for the right of differing tastes, sensibilities, and points of view to exist for/among others.
A person who is frightened by horror films doesn't choose to be, but their response gives them no right to say horror films should not exist or be available.
Just like a person who is interested by horror films doesn't choose to be but their response gives them no right to say everyone must watch horror films (or that other types of films should not be available.)

You're right in saying "it's art" or "it's god" or "it's patriotic" shouldn't give licence to do anything and everything that a particular speaker or group wishes to do, but expression is not action and consideration of an idea - even fascination with it - does not equate to endorsement. Even in the cases of active explicit endorsement of an idea that is still not action and must not be treated as such because living in a world where individuals can be prosecuted or persecuted for thought crimes is a truly horrifying idea indeed.
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wyrdwad: Good point. And that is absolutely accurate: this was my own personal response to that question, and you can rest assured that I never, ever would even dream of discussing the non-inclusion of content with creators. (If anything, I like to suggest the inclusion of additional content, like the male strip portraits in Akiba's Trip; there's no better way to be inclusive than to make sure EVERYBODY gets some nice fanservice!). ;)

Also, please do bear in mind that... you guys may not be the intended audience for my answer in the first place, potentially? See, the biggest issue that stands in the way of abolishing censorship in gaming is the sheer number of pro-censorship advocates, and their influence on the industry as a whole. And the only way we're going to one day rid ourselves of censorship is to try to appeal to their sensibilities, and convince them that censorship is not the answer. Which can only be achieved by reaching some sort of common ground with them, then working from there to show them how censorship damages even their own agendas in the end.

If, however, they are immediately alienated and told that their concerns are irrelevant and their point of view is flat-out wrong, they'll simply be galvanized in their existing notions. It's important to respect those who disagree, and try to see things from their side as best as possible, and I believe I'm in a good position to do that since I genuinely dislike a lot of the content that comes out of Japan, and -- as stated -- personally wish some of it wouldn't be there in the first place.

But I can't stress enough how absolutely crucial I feel it is that that content be preserved in localization. I've staked my career on that fact in the past, and would gladly do it again.

So to anyone reading this, I would ask that you please not doubt my convictions here. I may not sound quite hardcore enough for you, but rest assured, you have an ally in me.

I'm just hoping that even the pro-censorship contingency can see me as an ally as well, and I can help bridge the gap between the two sides and convert some to the anti-censorship camp. ;)

-Tom
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bluekamikaze: Including everyone is what actual diversity is, if the others side could that we'd have a lot less issues. I mean in the end diversity should mean you have more not less.

Thank you for taking time to make your position clear.
That would be great if the people demanding "diversity" actually thought that. But they don't, they want forced tokenism and removal of other characters. I've yet to meet an anti-censorship gamer who is opposed to games including minorities / other sexual orientations / whatever. What they are opposed to are things like demands that all games include X% black / trans / gay / whatever characters, games that intentionally make characters ugly because they don't want male gamers to think the character is hot (*cough* Mass Effect: Andromeda *cough*), they want to replace existing male / white characters with "washed" versions (see the demand for a female Link...when Nintendo made Linkle, those people weren't happy, they were mad that male Link still existed), etc. The people screaming for "diversity" want anything but actual diversity.
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wyrdwad: Also, please do bear in mind that... you guys may not be the intended audience for my answer in the first place, potentially? See, the biggest issue that stands in the way of abolishing censorship in gaming is the sheer number of pro-censorship advocates, and their influence on the industry as a whole. And the only way we're going to one day rid ourselves of censorship is to try to appeal to their sensibilities, and convince them that censorship is not the answer. Which can only be achieved by reaching some sort of common ground with them, then working from there to show them how censorship damages even their own agendas in the end.

If, however, they are immediately alienated and told that their concerns are irrelevant and their point of view is flat-out wrong, they'll simply be galvanized in their existing notions. It's important to respect those who disagree, and try to see things from their side as best as possible, and I believe I'm in a good position to do that since I genuinely dislike a lot of the content that comes out of Japan, and -- as stated -- personally wish some of it wouldn't be there in the first place.


-Tom
Hi Tom, I understand where you're coming from on this matter, but I think you underestimate the lengths the 'pro-censorship', supposedly 'progressive' movement will go to get their way.

I would love nothing more than a meaningful dialogue between the two sides. Even if you open a dialogue with them with the caveat that you are not going to change an anti-censorship stance they will just find a way to wiggle free and cry wolf.

To use a similar geeky hobby the current American comic industry has a number of its own controversies. For example a well known veteran DC comic artist created a sketch book for conventions to sell a good number of years ago featuring Sinestro on the cover and titled it 'My Struggle' as a tongue in cheek homage to Sinestro being a Hitler-esque villain. Now there are multiple major comic news sites who use that to claim he is a 'nazi'. There are active campaigns to have him fired, blacklisted etc... He has attempted multiple times to open dialogues with many of these outlets and accusers but they straight up refuse. But as he is a 20+ year veteran of the industry he has thankfully been pretty safe. But there are other younger talents who have not been so lucky.

The game that these 'progressives' play is not one of coming to a mutual understanding. They play for keeps. There is no middle-ground with them. The only thing we can continue to do is to 'hold the line' and hope that one day this 'outrage' culture goes away and the major outlets following these lines lose their readership and developers can get back to acting more freely without fear.
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grgspunk: What, may I ask, does this have anything to do with localizing Japanese video games? When was simply brushing aside the idiots that try to push political agendas simply out of the question? The fact that you're even bringing this up shows that you or someone else in your company are fearful and are willing to let these issues or the people that complain about them influence your localization decisions.
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wyrdwad: You're correct. There are people in this company who would allow these issues to influence their localization decisions. I even stated as such in my original answer, I believe.

I take umbrage with you calling it "brushing aside idiots," however, as these are absolutely legitimate concerns that affect a very large number of people. The people who are concerned are NOT idiots, and never have been.
And that's what makes us worried. You're giving the people who will NEVER be happy until everything is censored credibility and acting like the opinion is valid. Censorship is NEVER a valid opinion because people CHOOSE to consume media (watch movies, play games, read books, listen to music, etc) and if they don't like the content, then they shouldn't buy it - end of story. The fastest way to end their attack on creativity and freedom of speech (in its many forms) is to stop acting like being pro-censorship is a valid opinion. Stop "taking them into account" or falsely thinking that they're reasonable people. That's like saying that people who support honor killings have a valid opinion - some views are just 100% unequivocally wrong and censorship is one of them.
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wyrdwad: You're correct. There are people in this company who would allow these issues to influence their localization decisions. I even stated as such in my original answer, I believe.

I take umbrage with you calling it "brushing aside idiots," however, as these are absolutely legitimate concerns that affect a very large number of people. The people who are concerned are NOT idiots, and never have been.
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Totenglocke: And that's what makes us worried. You're giving the people who will NEVER be happy until everything is censored credibility and acting like the opinion is valid. Censorship is NEVER a valid opinion because people CHOOSE to consume media (watch movies, play games, read books, listen to music, etc) and if they don't like the content, then they shouldn't buy it - end of story. The fastest way to end their attack on creativity and freedom of speech (in its many forms) is to stop acting like being pro-censorship is a valid opinion. Stop "taking them into account" or falsely thinking that they're reasonable people. That's like saying that people who support honor killings have a valid opinion - some views are just 100% unequivocally wrong and censorship is one of them.
To be honest, though, i think that any dev that is OK with censorship you'll find that either the material wasn't as important to the big message, or maybe the big message isn't even a focus of the dev. I just wish we'd be more honest when something is censored, so we can make our own opinion about whether or not it was merited, and if not, not to invest in the art, since pandering for money is more important than the message of the product.


EDIT: Then again, pandering for money kind of precludes censorship regarding that there's censorship: so censors are, effectively, dishonest.
Post edited January 30, 2018 by kohlrak
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wyrdwad: You're correct. There are people in this company who would allow these issues to influence their localization decisions. I even stated as such in my original answer, I believe.

I take umbrage with you calling it "brushing aside idiots," however, as these are absolutely legitimate concerns that affect a very large number of people. The people who are concerned are NOT idiots, and never have been.
So you confirm there are Xseed staff that are willing to let these issues influence the localization decisions? I figured as much. Do me a favor and send them a message from me and my fellow weeb battle-buddies:

"GTFO of my videogame localization market".

If these guys are equating localizing fictional games as sexual harassment or an affront to LGBTQ rights, despite knowing full well that these games come from a foreign country with different norms and designed for a different audience, they chose the wrong field of work.

These political issues may affect a lot of people, but they have NO place in a professional environment, especially if they're letting that shit interfere with the integrity of the products that their consumers pay money for.

You're offended about me calling them idiots for letting politics interfere with localizations? Get over it. I call things as it is. Letting politics affect professionalism is a prime example of workplace-related idiocy.

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wyrdwad: I believe that these concerns are not enough to warrant censoring content. But make no mistake: I absolutely understand the desire to do so, even if I don't personally agree with the conclusion. If that makes me a sell-out in your eyes, then so be it.

But I'm still a sell-out who refuses to let acts of censorship go unchallenged, no matter the cost.
I don't think you're a sell-out, not yet at least--I just think you're faltering. Nobody here wants Japanese companies to censor themselves in order to appease a western audience, yet you wanted Japanese devs to have "dialogue" and be more "cognizant" so they can do just that.

You think this is something I'd expect an anti-censorship fellow would say? You think I want this to happen?

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wyrdwad: I've said from the very beginning that if a game makes a publisher so uncomfortable that they intend to censor it, they shouldn't be publishing that game in the first place. I can't comment on any of the "Senran Kagura-like" titles you're referring to specifically (though I can assure you that the content of those games was not a major source of concern for us), but I take absolutely no issue with localization companies picking and choosing their games based on what they feel best represents them as a publisher.

We've turned down games in the past because we personally didn't think they were very good games, even though fans really wanted us to work on them. And there's not a damned thing wrong with that. If we can't take pride in the games we work on, then why even bother working on them?
Well if the games didn't seem that great, why didn't you just say you've had to turn down some games due to quality issues? Regardless, if you're going to bring the issue of censorship (along with the political BS aspects), then you guys had better do something bold, because the negativity in your post only leaves us in doubt about your company's intentions.

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wyrdwad: The extreme amount of censorship that's occurring in recent game releases. On a level unseen in the entire decade preceding this one. Not since the '90s have so many games been released with such heavy censorship, and there's really very little sign of it stopping.
And yet there's been other titles out there that haven't that we would've never seen coming here. Stop letting the negativity dominate the issue, FFS.

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wyrdwad: And as you might recall, I fought tooth and nail against both of those alterations.
And yet, you lost. Regardless, I'm not just speaking to you as a person, but as a rep of Xseed. I don't know if you're the only one who reads this, but I have to assume you're not the only one, so I need to write my posts as such.
Post edited January 31, 2018 by grgspunk
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grgspunk: I don't think you're a sell-out, not yet at least--I just think you're faltering. Nobody here wants Japanese companies to censor themselves in order to appease a western audience, yet you wanted Japanese devs to have "dialogue" and be more "cognizant" so they can do just that.

You think this is something I'd expect an anti-censorship fellow would say? You think I want this to happen?
I would hope it is, yes. Because ultimately, we should all be aware of the world around us, and respect others as much as possible.

This doesn't mean altering one's artistic output, when being offensive or risque is an integral part of that. But to use the example I linked earlier, if someone at Nintendo suddenly decided Mario should murder children for some reason, I would hope some of the other devs there would ask that person WTF he/she was thinking.

Self-censorship is a terrible thing, but absolute anarchy can be just as bad. I am firmly anti-censorship, but I am not an anarchist, and I do not believe there should be zero accountability on the development level. Good stories are written with care and attention, not chaos.

That's just my personal opinion, though. And you are free to disagree.

And certainly, I do not let that opinion influence any developers -- not just because I'm in no position to do so, but also because I would never be so egotistical as to believe my opinion on this matter is worth more than a creative specialist who's been entrusted with a work of art. Agree or disagree, that person is the expert, not me, and I will always defer to his/her will.

-Tom