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General discussionI'm a little confused about wall chargers for my devices.(8 posts)solved(8 posts)solved
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Posted May 04, 2022
I need the help of someone knowledgeble, when it comes to electronics.

Recently I bought this charger, since I needed a power delivery(PD) port at 45W.

The problem I'm facing now, is that for the USB type A ports, the only outputs mentioned for this charger are these:
5.0V@3.0A(15W), 9.0V@3.0A(27W), 12.0V@3.0A(36W), 20.0V@3.0A(60W), as seen in the attached "back of the box" image bellow.

My current understanding is this: the adapter's maximum outputs don't matter, the device will draw as much amperage and voltage as it needs, based on its in-built limits. However, if the charger can only output lower amperage or voltage, then the device will also be limited to those lower values.

Things might have changed in recent times, so my question is this:
Could/should I use this charger's USB type A ports to charge a device like my old Nintendo DS, which requires something like 5.0V@1.0A?
Attachments:
back_of_the_box.png (306 Kb)
Post edited May 04, 2022 by MadalinStroe
This question / problem has been solved by WinterSnowfallimage
Posted May 04, 2022
Electrical engineer on duty reporting :P...
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MadalinStroe: My current understanding is this: the adapter's maximum outputs don't matter, the device will draw as much amperage and voltage as it needs, based on its in-built limits. However, if the charger can only output lower amperage or voltage, then the device will also be limited to those lower values.
You are indeed correct. Higher voltages (anything greater than 5V) are specific to quick charging devices and will only be enabled if these devices specifically report that they support them.

And of course the charger has to offer this capability for any quick charge device to take advantage of it. You can still charge your quick charge phones with a run-of-the-mill USB charger, but they will charge slowly, as those will only typically output 5V/2A (aka 10W).
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MadalinStroe: Things might have changed in recent times, so my question is this:
Could/should I use this charger's USB type A ports to charge a device like my old Nintendo DS, which requires something like 5.0V@1.0A?
Base voltages are the only relevant things here - I think I see the charger supports 5V/3A on those ports by default. The 3A is actually the max power draw - it will only output as strong of a current as a device needs to charge (1A-rated devices will only pull around 1A max - even they don't pull 1A constantly, as the draw varies during the charge cycle). It's only the base voltage that matters here to ensure compatibility (the same principle applies when looking for replacement laptop chargers as well, btw, besides a more extensive distinction around charge-nozzle difference on various vendors), which in this case is the USB-specific 5V, compatible across all USB devices since USB 1.0.

Hope that clears it up.

Note that manufacturer and product quality is still a thing. Don't buy quick/fast chargers from a non-reputable brand as they can easily fry your devices if something goes awry. Chargers with multiple output voltages are a potentially dangerous thing, and of course there are very clear standards around when quick/fast charge can be enabled (to the point where some devices that even support it will not be able to enable it properly sometimes), but jank is very much still a thing.

P.S.: One more thing to be careful about when dealing with quick/fast charge are the charge cables. Shoddy standard USB cables will typically not hold more than 5-10W and can heat up, melt and render themselves inoperable when used to quick charge. Some devices also check cable capabilities when enabling quick/fast charge and will refuse to enable it when poor cabling is used. Bottom line, make sure you have a proper charge cable as well in the equation when going above 5V.
Post edited May 04, 2022 by WinterSnowfall
Posted May 04, 2022
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WinterSnowfall: Electrical engineer on duty reporting :P...

Base voltages are the only relevant things here - I think I see the charger supports 5V/3A on those ports by default. The 3A is actually the max power draw - it will only output as strong of a current as a device needs to charge (1A-rated devices will only pull around 1A max - even they don't pull 1A constantly, as the draw varies during the charge cycle).

<snip>

P.S.: One more thing to be careful about when dealing with quick/fast charge are the charge cables. Shoddy standard USB cables will typically not hold more than 5-10W and can heat up, melt and render themselves inoperable when used to quick charge. Some devices also check cable capabilities when enabling quick/fast charge and will refuse to enable it when poor cabling is used. Bottom line, make sure you have a proper charge cable as well in the equation when going above 5V.
Yeah looking at the specs, the 100W part really makes me worried more than anything else; Even with 4 ports (divided 25W each) that sounds WAAAY overkill considering 5V is the output via USB.

If it isn't pulling power from the wall and having phantom power loss that sounds interesting (assuming that's what it means).
Posted May 04, 2022
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WinterSnowfall: ...
Thanks for the detailed info.
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WinterSnowfall: Note that manufacturer and product quality is still a thing.
I don't know for sure, other than what other people say about the product, but Baseus seems to be a pretty premium manufacturer.
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WinterSnowfall: P.S.: One more thing to be careful about when dealing with quick/fast charge are the charge cables...
I have some Anker Powerline+ cables rated for 100W, so there's no worries there. Anker know their business. ;)
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rtcvb32: Yeah looking at the specs, the 100W part really makes me worried more than anything else; Even with 4 ports (divided 25W each) that sounds WAAAY overkill considering 5V is the output via USB.

If it isn't pulling power from the wall and having phantom power loss that sounds interesting (assuming that's what it means).
Nothing to be worried about, that's what power delivery and quick charge are all about.
Post edited May 04, 2022 by MadalinStroe
Posted May 04, 2022
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MadalinStroe: Thanks for the detailed info.
You're welcome!

Also, fun historical fact - the protections (over-current and over-voltage) included in USB controllers have gotten far better ever since USB 2.0, when the standard mandated they be included. By that I mean in particular the USB ports you'd find in computers and laptops.

Back in the USB 1.0/1.1 era it was very possible and easy to fry your USB controller and render your ports inoperable simply by inserting a device that shorted out the pins or that behaved dubiously... and having no working USB ports on a laptop was kind of a sad affair.

These days a controller will simply shut itself down and enter a protected mode that persists until a hard reboot, after which it will resume normal operations, as if nothing happened (if the short/problem is removed, of course).
Posted May 04, 2022
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WinterSnowfall: <snip>
Fascinating. I watched a video on the history of USB and coming to type C and it was interesting, but there's so much more under the hood we don't know what's going on.

Pretty sure Video in question Why Does USB Keep Changing?
Posted May 04, 2022
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WinterSnowfall: ...
Base voltages are the only relevant things here - I think I see the charger supports 5V/3A on those ports by default. The 3A is actually the max power draw - it will only output as strong of a current as a device needs to charge (1A-rated devices will only pull around 1A max - even they don't pull 1A constantly, as the draw varies during the charge cycle). It's only the base voltage that matters here to ensure compatibility (the same principle applies when looking for replacement laptop chargers as well, btw, besides a more extensive distinction around charge-nozzle difference on various vendors), which in this case is the USB-specific 5V, compatible across all USB devices since USB 1.0.
This is where my confusion came from. It took the industry a long time to finally adopt USB as a universal connector(except apple), only to now become divided again, when every company has a proprietary quick charge protocol: Anker uses PowerIQ & IQ2.0 & IQ3.0, Qualcomm uses Quick Charge 1&2&3&3+&4&4+&5, OnePlus has warp, Oppo has SUPERVOOC, Huawei’s uses FCP and SCP... what a clusterfuck!
Posted May 04, 2022
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MadalinStroe: ... what a clusterfuck!
Yeah, I know... but it's all on them to be honest, because USB Power Delivery is now a thing, so everyone could just start supporting this common standard (some actually have, but I'm not aware which in particular)...
Post edited May 04, 2022 by WinterSnowfall
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General discussionI'm a little confused about wall chargers for my devices.(8 posts)solved(8 posts)solved
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