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Congrats on beating the tutorial. The real game starts in the multiplayer lobby.
:-)
Congrats on beating the first campaign. My greatest starcraft achievement to date was beating brood wars with a track pad and I felt amazing for days after that. I still have nightmares of some of those final zerg battles.
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timppu: If the RTS programmer can't come up with a competent computer AI, I guess he has to crank up the gamespeed in order to make it challenging for the human player.
Like the lazy way often 'harder' monsters are made in FPS's, usually by making them bullet sponges and not by competent AI's.
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BrandeX: Congrats on beating the tutorial. The real game starts in the multiplayer lobby.
:-)
And that's precisely the problem, is it not?
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Elmofongo: "Always Online DRM" No this is not Diablo 3 because I can play this game offline. Even during gameplay when the internet suddenly left the game is still playable the only concequence is that achievements are disabled but thats not that big of a concern for people who do not care about Achievements.
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Darvin: While they've gotten better about campaign mode, skirmish mode has gotten a lot nastier. If you lose your internet connection then your game ends, and if your internet connection is slow your singleplayer game will lag. There is a way to get the game to launch in singleplayer mode, but it's frankly annoying that you need to jump through so many hoops to get the game to function on a slow internet connection.

I also have deep problems with the fact that I need Blizzard's permission to play my game that I have paid for. In any other world, taking away something that someone else has paid for is theft. The fact that it's legal doesn't change the fact that it's blatantly unethical. Blizzard will not be getting another penny of business from me until they change their tune.

"They botched the lore" Mixed Bag imo so far. Now mind you I already am spoiled by what happened in both Liberty and HOTS. Oh man they ruined Kerrigan to a degree. All can say I hope her portrayal in the Legacy of the Void expansion will be less dissipointed. But I thought the Wings of Liberty campaign was great.
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Darvin: Blizzard has a habit of doing heavy ret-cons between each installment of their game franchises. You generally can't count on any given character being consistent from one game to the next. Dead characters who they want alive will be retconned into life, characters that they no longer care about will be unceremoniously declared dead by word of god then never mentioned again in the main storyline. So I've really stopped caring about the canon of the universes and just enjoy each game as a stand-alone entry.

As far as Wings of Liberty goes, I thought overall it was quite good but I had three major complaints. The first was Tychus Findley; the character was utterly flat and uninteresting and got way too much screen time. No spoilers about the end of the campaign, but his role in the ending was clearly intended to be dramatic but was utterly forgettable due to how weak his characterization had been up until this point. The second was how the final story arc on Char was gratuitous and over the top. It was definitely the weakest part of the campaign, and while having a weak story arc isn't a deal-breaker it was very disappointing for an otherwise strong campaign to end on its weakest foot. Finally, the Zeratul arc was just weird. It was doubtlessly meant to tie in with Legacy of the Void, but it felt really out of place thematically with Wings of Liberty.

When it comes to strategy games I always prefer to play on the defensive side setting up Bunkers and Siege Tanks and Missle Turrets against a whole swarm of Zerg.
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Darvin: I actually enjoy defensive strategies in multiplayer RTS, but singleplayer AI's just don't do justice to the interesting counterplay of a good defensive battle. In many ways, I'm just spoiled by games like Sins of a Solar Empire that have absolutely amazing siege battles. The final mission of Starcraft 2 is frankly boring in comparison to the pitched battles and risky gambits that people took in multiplayer SSE.

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timppu: If the RTS programmer can't come up with a competent computer AI, I guess he has to crank up the gamespeed in order to make it challenging for the human player.
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Darvin: AI's are really hard to do well in RTS. In Chess you can only make one move per turn, but in a RTS every single unit is constantly moving and acting. While the grand strategy in any given RTS may be simpler than Chess, the underlying variations that could occur are many orders more complicated to analyze. Good RTS AI's are generally very efficient about raising a large army and hitting you with it effectively. Once the human player is good enough that raw efficiency alone can't beat him, AI's generally crumple like wet tissue paper.
Tychus Findley did not need chaacterization because he's a BAD, BAD MAN.
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Breja: Unless you were playing on hard, it's really not that hard to beat. I mean, I did it, and I suck at RTS games. Although, I'm not sure if I'd beat it now :D I only got worse with time, and it snowballed in recent years. I find myself really disliking the frenetic pace. I always liked turn based strategies more, but now I find playing an RTS almost inherently unpleasant, even if it is a good game.
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Elmofongo: Even on normal there were moments in the game where I had to restart mission because I knew I could not win.

The problem with Turned Based Strategies is that THEY ARE SOOOOOOOOOOO .

I mean if my longest time in a Starcraft mission was 1 hour and 30 min, imagine how much even longer it would be if it were turned based?

So best Turned based strategy game is Heroes of Might and Magic 3?

What do you think of Advanced Wars and Fire Emblem?
HoMM 3 is a great TBS game, but by no means the best.

Chess is better.

I liked Fantasy Wars better, too (and the sequel Elven Legacy).

As for turn-based combat, Temple of Elemental Evil is unrivaled.
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Elmofongo: I'm starting to get hang of Real Time Startegy even though each mission can take an hour plus change :P

So anyway I decided to get into Starcraft 2 to hype myself up for the upcoming Legacy of the Void expansion which so far is looking good and right now I am going to attempt the Heart of the Swarm campaign.

Now I have seen people who bashes Starcraft II so far into the dust for a variety of reasons:

"Always Online DRM" No this is not Diablo 3 because I can play this game offline. Even during gameplay when the internet suddenly left the game is still playable the only concequence is that achievements are disabled but thats not that big of a concern for people who do not care about Achievements.

"They botched the lore" Mixed Bag imo so far. Now mind you I already am spoiled by what happened in both Liberty and HOTS. Oh man they ruined Kerrigan to a degree. All can say I hope her portrayal in the Legacy of the Void expansion will be less dissipointed. But I thought the Wings of Liberty campaign was great.

But the Starcraft gameplay is still their and present. The best missions for me were the hold your ground missions.

When it comes to strategy games I always prefer to play on the defensive side setting up Bunkers and Siege Tanks and Missle Turrets against a whole swarm of Zerg.

All in all this game is more Starcraft than Diablo 3 (and that game was not that bad that much and I played the first 2 games)
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Gnostic: That means Blizzard relax their Always Online DRM a bit after all these years.

I bought it on first day release and AODRM is a pain. Going offline will kick you out in the campaign

There is a offline AI skirmishes, but to get it you have to be connected to the internet when you launch the launcher or it will sit at "initializing" forever and the "play" button will be greyed out. When you get to the login screen you have to go offline/unplug your modem and hit login and then it will prompt you with a "Play Offline" function. You can then turn your modem back on and play offline AI skirmishes.

You should thank these people that bashes Starcraft II so far into the dust, without them you won't get to enjoy the offline campaign mode as of now.

I was at the start when they advertise the Oh so wonderful Protoss mothership. Activate a time bubble and watch bullets stand still and drop to the ground matrix style, and various cool abilities. Then because of PVP they nerf it over and over and pull out its ability, and finally it becomes another arbiter that is not really worth it. I am disappointed, hyping me for something and pull it away.

I had hope the gameplay mechanics of Starcraft 2 would improve like Warcraft 3 does, but nope, it is the same old Starcraft. That makes me wonder, other than the graphics and story, why should I play Starcraft 2 over Starcraft?

For me I enjoy RTS that does not let you win because you click faster, like the King Aurthur on GOG, or Sins of a Solar Empire. They have a adjustable speed setting that let you speed up / slow down the pace of combat as well as pause, giving you more time to make strategic decision.
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timppu: That is not really a handicap for being a computer AI, but lazy programming. Computer chess games have beaten human players for ages, by anticipating your different moves and tactics, even if you disable timed rounds.

If the RTS programmer can't come up with a competent computer AI, I guess he has to crank up the gamespeed in order to make it challenging for the human player. I just wish the challenge would come from elsewhere, as I don't play RTS games as action games. There certainly are RTS games which are quite challenging even though you can slow the gamespeed down to snail's pace in order to concentrate on many different things on the battlefield.

Good for you of course if you don't mind it, I guess we two just look for a different kind of challenge in our RTS games.

EDIT: One more clarification: I'm just asking for an option. If you e.g. want to play SC2 at max gamespeed all the time because only then you find it challenging enough, by all means you should be able to do that. The fact that e.g. I could have the ability to slow it down when things get more hectic wouldn't prevent you from not touching the gamespeed.

This is exactly what many other RTS games are doing, like the aforementioned Rise of Nations Gold.
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Gnostic: Do you have a list of other RTS game doing that?

I only know King Arthur, Sins of a Solar Empire and the on coming Ashes of Singularity
I thank them but so far you have not manage to make Blizzard add an Offline Mode for Diablo 3 :P

Or a single player version of World of Wacraft but thats wishful thinking at this point.
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Elmofongo: Hey hey hey I have yet to beat Diablo 2 on Nightmare and DIablo 3 on Torment X ;)
Torment X is a walk in the park. If you play on Americas just post your btag and I can lend you a hand. My DH is fairly weak but she can destroy Torment X in the blink of an eye.

D3 is cheap anyway (if you don't have it already). I think it's been on sale for 50% off with the xpac in the past.
Post edited November 03, 2015 by zeroxxx
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Gnostic: That means Blizzard relax their Always Online DRM a bit after all these years.

I bought it on first day release and AODRM is a pain. Going offline will kick you out in the campaign

There is a offline AI skirmishes, but to get it you have to be connected to the internet when you launch the launcher or it will sit at "initializing" forever and the "play" button will be greyed out. When you get to the login screen you have to go offline/unplug your modem and hit login and then it will prompt you with a "Play Offline" function. You can then turn your modem back on and play offline AI skirmishes.

You should thank these people that bashes Starcraft II so far into the dust, without them you won't get to enjoy the offline campaign mode as of now.

I was at the start when they advertise the Oh so wonderful Protoss mothership. Activate a time bubble and watch bullets stand still and drop to the ground matrix style, and various cool abilities. Then because of PVP they nerf it over and over and pull out its ability, and finally it becomes another arbiter that is not really worth it. I am disappointed, hyping me for something and pull it away.

I had hope the gameplay mechanics of Starcraft 2 would improve like Warcraft 3 does, but nope, it is the same old Starcraft. That makes me wonder, other than the graphics and story, why should I play Starcraft 2 over Starcraft?

For me I enjoy RTS that does not let you win because you click faster, like the King Aurthur on GOG, or Sins of a Solar Empire. They have a adjustable speed setting that let you speed up / slow down the pace of combat as well as pause, giving you more time to make strategic decision.

Do you have a list of other RTS game doing that?

I only know King Arthur, Sins of a Solar Empire and the on coming Ashes of Singularity
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Elmofongo: I thank them but so far you have not manage to make Blizzard add an Offline Mode for Diablo 3 :P

Or a single player version of World of Wacraft but thats wishful thinking at this point.
Offline Diablo 3 is console only, sorry.

"Cries"
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Elmofongo: Hey hey hey I have yet to beat Diablo 2 on Nightmare and DIablo 3 on Torment X ;)
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zeroxxx: Torment X is a walk in the park. If you play on Americas just post your btag and I can lend you a hand. My DH is fairly weak but she can destroy Torment X in the blink of an eye.

D3 is cheap anyway (if you don't have it already). I think it's been on sale for 50% off with the xpac in the past.
Well the thing is I have not been payed in awhile now. So unless someone is generous enough to gift me Diablo 3+Reapers of Souls I won't be playing D3 for awhile.