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Reading the numerous articles about Harper Lee following her passing, I clicked on one in "The Independent" site about "controversy" surrounding her second work.

I have not read it yet, but Lee wrote it; and wanted it to be published.

I was quite irritated at the notion of "controversy" at that. I thought it went against artistic freedom (which it does, actually).

If anyone finds controversy in less flattering, less heroic portrayal of Atticus - which Lee had originated, and without shackles of post-publication hero-worship - they simply should not read Go Set a Watchman.

But Lee wrote it, and wanted it published, so that's that.

Then I thought about Mass Effect 3 ending controversy.

I finally bit the bullet with the series, though I still and always will suck at the FPS part. I should quite soon get to see the (an) infamous ending.

I have braced myself against it, and not liking it is a possibility.

But reading about Watchman controversy made me think: I sorely oppose Lee being censored and bridled because of hero-worship of Atticus Finch character. What she wanted to write, she should. What she wanted to publish, she should.

I actually respect best of RPG as deeply crafted art and great story telling, as I respect Lee's integrity and autonomy.

Yet the force of fandom about ME3 ending was and is... heartwarming and quite admirable, and maybe needed, when one knows that even core game-play slights very easily worm into release PC titles... (Inquisition, Skyrim etc)

Conflicted, but still... probably with Harper Lee. (but I have not played the bitter end yet - just started Cerberus Headquarters, let it be said)

What do you think?
Isn't Go Set a Watchman considered an early, unedited draft of To Kill a Mockingbird?

Now, about the controversy surrounding the ME ending... it's not so much about the ending itself, rather that it totally disregards the player choices of the whole trilogy + DLCs and it comes down to three (or two) choices at the very end. Nothing you have done in the whole trilogy effects the endings.

Make sure you play the CITADEL DLC before you get to the end of ME3. That DLC is based on what you did on all three games and is absolutely spectacular in that way. Needless to say, the more NPCs you have left alive by then, the more content that DLC will have.

Mass Effect is an excellent trilogy with heavy science fiction content, a rich universe, well-thought storyline, deep characters and it's all about those characters and your actions' consequences. It's ending wasn't.
Post edited February 20, 2016 by sunshinecorp
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sunshinecorp: Isn't Go Set a Watchman considered an early, unedited draft of To Kill a Mockingbird?
pretty much yes
its marketed as a prequel of sorts but i mostly see it as a rough out line a sketch of what could have been filled with maybe's before she thought better off it and reworked it in the book that it is now

maybe she wanted to release the manuscript to show people what changes how to kill a mocking bird went through before being published
Well, Jezebel just posted a good breakdown of how Atticus was always a racist. It dives into the idea of the enslaver's chivalry and the "good white person" patriarch.

The article proposes that Watchman wasn't quite as hamfisted as it would seem on the surface, just that the racism inherent to Atticus was more insidious.
I've seen it three times; I think Jackie Earle Haley does a great job. :P
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sunshinecorp: Isn't Go Set a Watchman considered an early, unedited draft of To Kill a Mockingbird?

Now, about the controversy surrounding the ME ending... it's not so much about the ending itself, rather that it totally disregards the player choices of the whole trilogy
Make sure you play the CITADEL DLC before you get to the end of ME3.
It is considered thus. But Watchman was published as and when Lee would and could- she wanted it to be part of her literary legacy; and assessment. It is known to be un(der)-edited - but being so probably only serves as counter weight to Mockingbird canonization.

I only have "extended edition" - I would not pay for DLC when I doubt the ending so much.

I do not even play FPS normally, courtesy to BW writing, but I love my FemShep as the next guy or gal. But have you read Orwell's 1984? How depressing is that? "I betrayed you." "So did I." Unemotional full stops. That is all.

We all wanted that to end differently, did we not?
Well, there's a huge difference between censorship, a publisher's commercial right to select what they want to sell, and public criticism ... Just as a writer is free to write something you might not like, a publisher is free as well to publish something you don't like or reject something they don't like themselves, and you are free to dislike what writers write and publishers decide. A controversy just indicates that a theme hit a nerve and that there are strong opposite opinions about it that are being discussed, which is all part of democracy and freedom of speech, not a sign for censorship. Just because people can write whatever they want to doesn't mean everyone has to approve of it and not call them out if they think it's bullshit. ;)

Disclaimer: I wasn't outraged by Mass Effect 3's ending, but I didn't think it was very good either. I never read any fan fiction and I never demanded that it should be changed (I was late to the party anyway, but what's the point; it's someone else's story, not custom-tailored to my wishes; as such I can accept it with all its flaws - and still harshly criticize them).
Post edited February 20, 2016 by Leroux
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sunshinecorp: Isn't Go Set a Watchman considered an early, unedited draft of To Kill a Mockingbird?

Now, about the controversy surrounding the ME ending... it's not so much about the ending itself, rather that it totally disregards the player choices of the whole trilogy
Make sure you play the CITADEL DLC before you get to the end of ME3.
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TStael: It is considered thus. But Watchman was published as and when Lee would and could- she wanted it to be part of her literary legacy; and assessment. It is known to be un(der)-edited - but being so probably only serves as counter weight to Mockingbird canonization.

I only have "extended edition" - I would not pay for DLC when I doubt the ending so much.

I do not even play FPS normally, courtesy to BW writing, but I love my FemShep as the next guy or gal. But have you read Orwell's 1984? How depressing is that? "I betrayed you." "So did I." Unemotional full stops. That is all.

We all wanted that to end differently, did we not?
I wouldn't call Mass Effect an FPS. It's not even first person. It's a cover-based shooter, sure. An action-RPG sure. Not an FPS by any account. Anyway, some DLCs in the trilogy are actually worth it, trust me:

ME: Bring Down the Sky
ME2: Zaeed - The Price of Revenge (gives you a squadmate)
ME2: Kasumi - Stolen Memory (gives you a squadmate)
ME2: Overlord
ME2: Lair of the Shadow Broker
ME2: Arrival
ME3: From Ashes (gives you a squadmate)
ME3: Extended Cut (free)
ME3: Leviathan
ME3: Omega
ME3: Citadel (best of the bunch)

All of these give you a lot of good content, storywise and character wise. Some are excellent, some are just good, but all are highly recommended. In fact, I think you're not even getting a complete Mass Effect experience without them.

You can of course safely skip any DLCs that are just appearance packs, weapons packs or action-mission packs, I haven't even listed them here because they don't offer much if anything at all.

Trust me. Get the DLCs I've listed. Or at the very least get the ones that grant you extra squadmates and the Citadel DLC.
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TStael: It is considered thus. But Watchman was published as and when Lee would and could- she wanted it to be part of her literary legacy; and assessment. It is known to be un(der)-edited - but being so probably only serves as counter weight to Mockingbird canonization.

I only have "extended edition" - I would not pay for DLC when I doubt the ending so much.

I do not even play FPS normally, courtesy to BW writing, but I love my FemShep as the next guy or gal. But have you read Orwell's 1984? How depressing is that? "I betrayed you." "So did I." Unemotional full stops. That is all.

We all wanted that to end differently, did we not?
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sunshinecorp: I wouldn't call Mass Effect an FPS. It's not even first person. It's a cover-based shooter, sure. An action-RPG sure. Not an FPS by any account. Anyway, some DLCs in the trilogy are actually worth it, trust me:
...

Trust me. Get the DLCs I've listed. Or at the very least get the ones that grant you extra squadmates and the Citadel DLC.
For the DLC list, see above.

But this set aside - do you feel at all conflicted about the ME3 ending controversy?

And would you feel different if Aldous Huxley had been lobbied to make 1984 ending more "satisfying"?

I am sitting on the fence because I cannot be sure if BioWare was artistic or budgetary. It is painful, btw - those fence spikes bite hard on the backside, actually! :-p
Now there's a headline. You never cease to amaze, GOG forum.
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sunshinecorp: snip
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TStael: For the DLC list, see above.

But this set aside - do you feel at all conflicted about the ME3 ending controversy?

And would you feel different if Aldous Huxley had been lobbied to make 1984 ending more "satisfying"?

I am sitting on the fence because I cannot be sure if BioWare was artistic or budgetary. It is painful, btw - those fence spikes bite hard on the backside, actually! :-p
Not getting DLC because you doubt the ending is not sound reasoning. The ending itself is 15 minutes. The entire trilogy including DLC is dozens of hours, hundreds if you replay. All quality writing. To judge the entire series (and that's not only about DLC) based on 15 minutes is silly. Yes, I didn't like the ending, yes I thought it could have been more based on player choices, but no, I don't really care because the entire ME experience was extremely satisfying. Again, 15 minutes versus dozens or potentialy hundreds of hours.

1984 is Orwell's not Huxley's and it had a great and fitting ending.
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Leroux: Well, there's a huge difference between censorship, a publisher's commercial right to select what they want to sell, and public criticism ... Just as a writer is free to write something you might not like, a publisher is free as well to publish something you don't like or reject something they don't like themselves, and you are free to dislike what writers write and publishers decide. A controversy just indicates that a theme hit a nerve and that there are strong opposite opinions about it that are being discussed, which is all part of democracy and freedom of speech, not a sign for censorship. Just because people can write whatever they want to doesn't mean everyone has to approve of it and not call them out if they think it's bullshit. ;)

Disclaimer: I wasn't outraged by Mass Effect 3's ending, but I didn't think it was very good either. I never read any fan fiction and I never demanded that it should be changed (I was late to the party anyway, but what's the point; it's someone else's story, not custom-tailored to my wishes; as such I can accept it with all its flaws - and still harshly criticize them).
You say?

Besides. Harper Lee.

You read Mockingbird or Watchman? Or about them at least?

And even if not - is literary "controversy" ok in yer books?

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TStael: And would you feel different if Aldous Huxley had been lobbied to make 1984 ending more "satisfying"?

I am sitting on the fence because I cannot be sure if BioWare was artistic or budgetary. It is painful, btw - those fence spikes bite hard on the backside, actually! :-p
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sunshinecorp: Not getting DLC because you doubt the ending is not sound reasoning. The ending itself is 15 minutes. The entire trilogy including DLC is dozens of hours, hundreds if you replay.

1984 is Orwell's not Huxley's and it had a great and fitting ending.
Um - u passionate or paid to promote? I hope the former.

Dethmold put me off definitely from The Witcher 2, and I paid some 50+/- sterling for a single play-through which is ridiculous - so could ME3 ending, for that matter. If ME3 puts me off - no DLC money from me, rest assured.
Post edited February 20, 2016 by TStael
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TStael: snip
Oh, I'd sure like to be paid to promote. If EA is listening, message me for details where to send payment. :D

But just to clarify: I absolutely hate EA as a company, because of idiotic game direction and stupid DLC and micro-payment policies, because of them ruining a lot of companies they bought (Bioware for instance) and because they mostly deliver crap and more crap made to look like other crap. But Mass Effect was an exception. So was the original Dragon Age (the first one).
Post edited February 20, 2016 by sunshinecorp
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Breja: Now there's a headline. You never cease to amaze, GOG forum.
And I mean it, too! I came to it seeing Indy headline and comment, but felt gamer about it.

As much I regret seeing Lech Walesa tentatively discredited. I admire him as one of the great European statesmen.

I would not try and pretend that most would care of follow. But just think about it, Breja.

And Mass Effect 3 ending - btw?
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TStael: You say?

Besides. Harper Lee.

You read Mockingbird or Watchman? Or about them at least?

And even if not - is literary "controversy" ok in yer books?
To tell the truth, I'm not sure I understand what you're actually asking me here and for what purpose ...

Why should a controversy not be ok? Would you rather have the conflicting opinions censored? ;)

Whether it's interesting or relevant, now that would be a different question, depending on the case. I was speaking in general, not about Harper Lee.
Post edited February 20, 2016 by Leroux