It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionTypes of racism in video games.(87 posts)(87 posts)
(87 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
This is my favourite topic
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
Lord_Kane: Ah, I am not familiar with D&D before 3rd Edition so I didn't know that about 1e and 2e and I forgot how weird the dark elves are handled (drizzt notwithstanding) and even then I have only played D&D maybe....twice?
Drow are usually Chaotic Evil, so it's not surprising everyone would be wary/hate them...

avatar
timppu: Starcraft was quite racist. It depicted Zergs as some kind of mindless, hive-minded blood-thirsty creatures which all look and act alike
I wasn't sure if i should have brought up Starcraft. It's more a case of outright war and less a case of racism...

avatar
morolf: They retconned that in Starcraft 2, just like with the Orcs in Warcraft 3...basically the Zerg just had come under bad influence and were sort of misunderstood.
Like which overmind they were under the control of?

Zerg should essentially be seen as a single entity, a hive.

avatar
dtgreene: World building can be racist.
I begin to build a building with bricks... Racism?

I set a town next to a river. Racism?

The town hates Faction XYZ because they are criminals and thieves... Racism?

avatar
dtgreene: If a race can be described as "humans, except that...",
Isn't that nearly all species/races in all fantasy games? Even a number of monsters in the monster manuals.

avatar
jsidhu762: I hate orcs so much. They smell as bad as they look.
I interrogated Orcs once. Asked them what their purpose was in the area. Their reply? "Humans are Num-Nums"...
Posted September 16, 2020
So many of these debates come down to two different theories on race relations. When I was a kid we were taught "there's NO difference! Ignore anything you see that seems different, treat everyone the same, anything that depicts us as different is racist and bad!" Nowadays it's the opposite... "we're very different, but that's okay! Difference is good! They're over there, you're over here, and let's all respect each other and live our different lives in peace!"

It doesn't all fall along age lines either. That's a factor but it's also just a philosophical difference. I firmly believe most of today's racial conflict boils down to these two views being thoroughly incompatible. Yes there are real, actual racist pieces of crap out there. The internet has shown me there are more that I thought there were, sadly. However the actual political conflicts... I really think it's more about cultural ideas of what diversity and racism actually mean.

My mother says things all the time that CNN and Huffington Post would call her racist for, but to her she's a "cultural nationalist," not a white nationalist. She thinks everyone in the U.S. should live THIS way, and she thinks skin color is irrelevant as long as you do. CNN thinks telling black people to live THIS way is racist, because their culture is part of their race. These two views are diametrically opposed. The only way to live together is to learn to accept the view opposite yours as valid, but neither side wants to do that right now.
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
dtgreene: Do they smell as bad as those filthy Naskout folks? (This message from a resident of Saskout on planet Lennus, the world where the game Paladin's Quest takes place.)
The residents of Naskout are a fresh spring breeze compared to orcs.
Posted September 16, 2020
1) Cultural misappropriation: Attributing things to cultures which are factually incorrect. Such as conflating Mexican, Latin, and Hispanic as the same idea.

2) Historical idiocy: Thanks to rampant colonialism, a lot of cultures were given the Mixed Up Mother Goose treatment or otherwise ended up blurred together; examples including Darkest Africa, Grome, or Horny Vikings. (For the longest time in the USA, Christopher Columbus wasn't treated as the rat bastard he actually was.)

3) Stereotyping gone horribly wrong/insensitive. Such as Jynx. Which is supposedly based on a yokai/then cultural trend, but "Ganguro practitioners say that the term derives from the phrase ganganguro or "gangankuro" (ガンガン黒, exceptionally dark). The word ganguro can be translated as "burn-black look", "dark tanning" or "black-face"."

Yeah, no. Japan has had a problem with this kind of thing

4) The Blatant. Often under the guise of "Patriotism" and "Nationhood", will there be games produced with an anti-race message. Call of Duty is often known to do this, such as the infamous "No Russian" mission or the revisionist rewriting of history to erase massacres among other Geneva convention violations.
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
Lord_Kane: Ah, I am not familiar with D&D before 3rd Edition so I didn't know that about 1e and 2e and I forgot how weird the dark elves are handled (drizzt notwithstanding) and even then I have only played D&D maybe....twice?
avatar
rtcvb32: Drow are usually Chaotic Evil, so it's not surprising everyone would be wary/hate them...
Ah. I did not know that.
Posted September 16, 2020
While probably not intentional, the lore in Wolfenstein: The New Order includes a secret jewish order, Da'at Yichud which invented powerful machines and weapons that the nazis used to take power. If I recall correctly, the game actually explains the antisemitism of the in-game nazis as a result from regarding Da'at Yichud as a threat to them, which I'd argue at least partially confirms the worldviews of certain neo-nazi groups.
Posted September 16, 2020
I just quickly wish to say something about this topic.

I do not think that video games or any other media should necessarily shy away from topics such as racism, but I think pains should be taken that one does not imply that racism is or can be only one sided. All humans are capable of evil thoughts and actions and it is far more morally healthy to hold individuals accountable rather than groups.

With that said, I think if games should wish to tackle issues such as racism then it should be done in such a manner that the absurdity of the concept be laid bare. The idea that a person's genetic makeup is a cause for certain evils, or the reverse, -that certain evils may only be ascribed to people of a certain genetic composition-, should be shown to be absurd.
As history and experience aught to teach anyone, it is the philosophy of a person or group of persons that drive their actions, whether evil or good.

Therefore I believe that those who write stories aught rather to tackle ideologies, such as racism in general, than race, lest they be found guilty of the same crime they wish to condemn. But more than this I would urge that writers rather focus on writing intriguing stories and make video games with fun and challenging mechanics than to mire their work in politics.
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
StingingVelvet: So many of these debates come down to two different theories on race relations. When I was a kid we were taught "there's NO difference! Ignore anything you see that seems different, treat everyone the same, anything that depicts us as different is racist and bad!" Nowadays it's the opposite... "we're very different, but that's okay! Difference is good! They're over there, you're over here, and let's all respect each other and live our different lives in peace!"

It doesn't all fall along age lines either. That's a factor but it's also just a philosophical difference. I firmly believe most of today's racial conflict boils down to these two views being thoroughly incompatible. Yes there are real, actual racist pieces of crap out there. The internet has shown me there are more that I thought there were, sadly. However the actual political conflicts... I really think it's more about cultural ideas of what diversity and racism actually mean.

My mother says things all the time that CNN and Huffington Post would call her racist for, but to her she's a "cultural nationalist," not a white nationalist. She thinks everyone in the U.S. should live THIS way, and she thinks skin color is irrelevant as long as you do. CNN thinks telling black people to live THIS way is racist, because their culture is part of their race. These two views are diametrically opposed. The only way to live together is to learn to accept the view opposite yours as valid, but neither side wants to do that right now.
I'm of the second stance.

Incidentally, my Wasteland 2 example would fit in with that. In a way, the developers were erasing Jill Yates's iddntity by (originally) giving her a white portrait.
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
dtgreene: This particularly applies if a race is strictly better than another, for exmple. If they're different, but balanced, that's generally not too much of a problem (though it would help if players could opt out of those differences to create characters who are atypical and defy stereotypes), but the problem is when you don't have that balance.
Again that's a question of game balance it has absolutely nothing to do with racism.

If in a fictional story a fictional race is smarter, stronger that all the others it's not racism in the same way if in a game a playable race is significantly better than all the others, it might be a problem as far as gameplay goes, but it wont have anything to do with racism either.

avatar
dtgreene: If a race can be described as "humans, except that...", then I would say that they're close enough (from a game mechanics perspective) to humans that they can be seen as a sort of human. If that description doesn't apply, then there's a bit more of a gap.
That's a little broad, 99% of the races in Star Trek could be described as being "humans, except that...". Also how do you determine the "human, except that..." part, based on physical appearance ? because you can have a race that looks exactly like humans while being energy based god like immortal being or something totally different.

avatar
dtgreene: Also, a lore justification would not get rid of the racism.
It could be a zombie sickness that causes the skin color of this race darken while giving them higher strength but lower intelligence. It could be a species that has huge genetic, mental and physical differences between its different races resulting in different skin colors but also different strength or weakness, etc... There are plenty of lore explanation that could justify this difference without having anything at all to do with real world "racism".
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
dtgreene: If a race can be described as "humans, except that...", then I would say that they're close enough (from a game mechanics perspective) to humans that they can be seen as a sort of human. If that description doesn't apply, then there's a bit more of a gap.
avatar
Gersen: That's a little broad, 99% of the races in Star Trek could be described as being "humans, except that...". Also how do you determine the "human, except that..." part, based on physical appearance ? because you can have a race that looks exactly like humans while being energy based god like immortal being or something totally different.
I'm thinking of game mechanics here.

For example:
* An elf in a system like Dungeons and Dragons plays like a human, except for some ability score modifiers, some minor advantages (nothing game-shattering), and (in 3e and possibly later) the lack of the minor skill bonus and extra feat that humans get. Such characters still improve the way humans do (via levels gained through experience points), use equipment like humans, choose classes like humans (except for some restrictions in 2e and earlier), and so forth.
* A robot in SaGa 2, on the other hand, does not play like a human in that game. Equipment can be used by both, but robots get stat bonuses from equipment that humans don't, recover item uses at the inn (but have only half the uses a human would), and have no body slot restrictions (so you can equip multiple suits of armor or multiple helmets at the same time). On the other hand, robots don't get permanent stat increases at the end of battle the way humans do based off their actions.

In other words, in D&D an elf behaves more or less like a human mechanically, while in SaGa 2 a robot does not behave like a human mechanically.
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
dtgreene: I'm of the second stance.
I would expect you to be, as a modern progressive. That's not an insult!

I struggle with it. I believe is a Star Trek kinda future where humanity is one people, and to me if we self-segregate based on physical identifiers that's never going to happen. Humans are tribal by instinct, and if we indulge in that we're never going to overcome it. I think culture is learned, not ingrained. Yet... I am also very against the idea of cultural nationalism that is so popular on the Right today.

So in this extremely polarized world today I usually end up in the progressive camp, but then often annoyed by their more extreme racial segregation attempts (a "People of Color Cafe" at a college being a super horrible recent one).
Posted September 16, 2020
avatar
rtcvb32: Drow are usually Chaotic Evil, so it's not surprising everyone would be wary/hate them...
avatar
Lord_Kane: Ah. I did not know that.
They also worship Lloth.

Drow have a matriarchy system; So males have very little in the way of rights and worth; So logically males would be more likely to drift off and leave.
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionTypes of racism in video games.(87 posts)(87 posts)
(87 posts)