Posted October 02, 2021
AB2012
Registered: Sep 2014
From United Kingdom
Gersen
New User
Registered: Sep 2008
From Switzerland
Posted October 02, 2021
low rated
I don't think that just saying "DRM-free" is enough anymore. Everybody has it's own definition of what it means, and of course everybody think that their own is the only correct one.
Also there are things that could "technically" be considered as qualifying as being "DRM-free" but that IMHO would be unacceptable to be sold on Gog.
For example "technically" MMO could be considered "DRM-free" (if you go back to the original definition of DRM and no special DRM is added to the client) but I guess we can both agree (at least on that) that it wouldn't be acceptable if tomorrow Gog decide to sell World of Warcraft and its extensions, and we would probably be both very pissed at them if they ever do it.
It's the same for Hitman, personally I can "understand" (And "understand" DOESN'T mean agreeing or excusing) how Gog might consider it to qualify as "DRM-free" but I still find this release totally unacceptable and I 100% agree that Gog MUST fix it ASAP.
That's why I think that it would be important to have a clear definition of what Gog utilities to determine what they consider as being DRM-free, probably you or even me will disagree with it but at least we will something to start from instead of everybody screaming on their side that their own definition of DRM is the right one and that everybody who disagree is stupid.
Heck if you read some of my other posts throughout the years you probably noticed that it's something I have asked for quite sometime now, for example I often say that Gog should have put clearly in the FAQ that multiplayer is not included in their DRM-free promises, even doing something as basic as that would have avoided plenty or discussions and confusions.
nightcraw1er.488
Boycott Nov 2020-…
Registered: Apr 2012
From United Kingdom
Posted October 02, 2021
There are lots of different things and the term drm is not a good one:
Online gating
Online only
Activations
Security software like denuvo
Anti cheat modules
Streaming
In game pop ups
Multiplayer locked to proprietary servers
Proprietary launchers
In game web connection (e.g. for “news”)
Proprietary locked features (e.g. achievements only for galaxy)
Cloud saves (proprietary)
Media checks (used to be dvd checks)
Telemetry (eg unity)
There are likely others that I have missed. GOG currently cover almost all of these, streaming (although it promotes nvidia one) and denuvo (although fear apparently installs securom if you hit multiplayer) are the only two I think. So no difference to any of the other stores out there.
Online gating
Online only
Activations
Security software like denuvo
Anti cheat modules
Streaming
In game pop ups
Multiplayer locked to proprietary servers
Proprietary launchers
In game web connection (e.g. for “news”)
Proprietary locked features (e.g. achievements only for galaxy)
Cloud saves (proprietary)
Media checks (used to be dvd checks)
Telemetry (eg unity)
There are likely others that I have missed. GOG currently cover almost all of these, streaming (although it promotes nvidia one) and denuvo (although fear apparently installs securom if you hit multiplayer) are the only two I think. So no difference to any of the other stores out there.
mqstout
Pittsburgh cis-gay-male
Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
rjbuffchix
Put Galaxy behind a paywall
Registered: Jun 2017
From United States
Posted October 02, 2021
Great question. My guess is "complete lack of desire", at best.
paladin181
Cheese
Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
Posted October 02, 2021
And no streaming, and that include game streaming, as bad as it might be, is technically not a DRM in itself. DRM includes intent, the always online part of streaming is an inherent part of how the technology itself works, it's not something created specifically with the intent of controlling the user rights or limiting copies, the fact that it does is a side effect.
Otherwise it would mean that listening to radio was a form of "analog DRM" because it limited what the user could do with the music.
Netflix is a service. I don't pay for individual titles, so if they lose a title, I am not generally upset (even when I really loved it) because when they gain a title, I get "free" access to it (free as in it costs me no extra beyond my subscription fee). So I am able to enjoy everything they have as a sampler service as long as I have the account. If I'm paying for a specific thing, and I don't have access to it, that is DRM. If I buy a movie from Disney, and they don't turn over a copy of the video file, that is DRM. If something I bought is going to be no longer available to me through a digital means, then it is DRM.
The radio and TV are more akin to free Netflix. You get a service that is provided. You didn't pay for a song, or a specific show. It's there as part of a service (in many cases that you're not paying for, but if you are, you're generally not getting it on demand).
richlind33
bong hits for beelzebub
Registered: Jan 2016
From United States
Posted October 02, 2021
I don't think that just saying "DRM-free" is enough anymore. Everybody has it's own definition of what it means, and of course everybody think that their own is the only correct one.
Also there are things that could "technically" be considered as qualifying as being "DRM-free" but that IMHO would be unacceptable to be sold on Gog.
For example "technically" MMO could be considered "DRM-free" (if you go back to the original definition of DRM and no special DRM is added to the client) but I guess we can both agree (at least on that) that it wouldn't be acceptable if tomorrow Gog decide to sell World of Warcraft and its extensions, and we would probably be both very pissed at them if they ever do it.
It's the same for Hitman, personally I can "understand" (And "understand" DOESN'T mean agreeing or excusing) how Gog might consider it to qualify as "DRM-free" but I still find this release totally unacceptable and I 100% agree that Gog MUST fix it ASAP.
That's why I think that it would be important to have a clear definition of what Gog utilities to determine what they consider as being DRM-free, probably you or even me will disagree with it but at least we will something to start from instead of everybody screaming on their side that their own definition of DRM is the right one and that everybody who disagree is stupid.
Heck if you read some of my other posts throughout the years you probably noticed that it's something I have asked for quite sometime now, for example I often say that Gog should have put clearly in the FAQ that multiplayer is not included in their DRM-free promises, even doing something as basic as that would have avoided plenty or discussions and confusions.
teceem
Ack Ack Ack!
Registered: Apr 2013
From Belgium
Posted October 02, 2021
If you said "Streaming-only by its very nature is DRM", then I'd agree. But maybe that's what you meant in the first place.
In the end it's about being able to purchase a DRM-free game, not about the existence of some other service that asks your firstborn in exchange.
And the Netflix thing... if they offer a movie/tv show only on their streaming service, with no possibility of buying/downloading a DRM free copy - I'd call that DRM, not a "side effect". Let's not be naïve, (a big part of) the film industry has always been as bad as "some Japanese game publishers".
Post edited October 02, 2021 by teceem
paladin181
Cheese
Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
Posted October 02, 2021
If you said "Streaming-only by its very nature is DRM", then I'd agree. But maybe that's what you meant in the first place.
In the end it's about being able to purchase a DRM-free game, not about the existence of some other service that asks your firstborn in exchange.
And the Netflix thing... if they offer a movie/tv show only on their streaming service, with no possibility of buying/downloading a DRM free copy - I'd call that DRM, not a "side effect". Let's not be naïve, (a big part of) the film industry has always been as bad as "some Japanese game publishers".
teceem
Ack Ack Ack!
Registered: Apr 2013
From Belgium
Posted October 02, 2021
Just curious... do you say "accept" because you aren't interested in buying any of the "specific things" that are available on their service?
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted October 02, 2021
low rated
paladin181
Cheese
Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted October 02, 2021
low rated
I paied for that product, god darn it, and I expect it to work!
paladin181
Cheese
Registered: Nov 2012
From United States
Posted October 02, 2021
Yes. That is not something they control, nor is the electricity supplied by the provider. The servers are owned (or rented) by the provider of a product. An outage of internet or electricity is obviously beyond their means of control. Binding their product to a proprietary server they control is a choice that means one day, they will deny you the ability to access your paid product, in part or in full BY DESIGN. But yeah, let's make silly statements and pass them off as legitimate arguments.
teceem
Ack Ack Ack!
Registered: Apr 2013
From Belgium