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I really enjoy RPG's, and strategy-sim type games (I have poor hand-eye coordination so most FPS's, RTS's, and flying/driving sims are not for me).
Also, even though I am obsessive/compulsive, I cannot play the same game for 400 hours straight and if I take a three day break, I can't get back into the flow or even remember what I wanted to accomplish.
To continue,, what some call 'open ended' I often find to be nauseatingly repetitive and unchanging (even though I promised myself I would never buy another game in the series, shortly after it was released the amazing graphics and the overwhelmingly positive reviews prompted me to waste both my money and time on Skyrim: Dragonborn)
Also recently I purchased one of the games in the Settlers series, and in the Anno series, but I've found that the manuals and the tutorials/missions don't adequately explain how to use the interface, never mind play the game.

I must say I really enjoyed Dishonored and Deus Ex Human Revolution, but stealth games are not my favorite genre.
So if you started gaming before 1990, and you like the same kinds of games I do, are there any recommendations you could make?

{Bean counters... destroy variety because we really need thousands of clones of the three most popular games}

PS: I don't play multiplayer games or purchase DLC.
Post edited August 11, 2020 by TrainedMedium
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TrainedMedium: I really enjoy RPG's, and strategy-sim type games (I have poor hand-eye coordination so most FPS's, RTS's, and flying/driving sims are not for me).
Also, even though I am obsessive/compulsive, I cannot play the same game for 400 hours straight and if I take a three day break, I can't get back into the flow or even remember what I wanted to accomplish.
To continue,, what some call 'open ended' I often find to be nauseatingly repetitive and unchanging (even though I promised myself I would never buy another game in the series, shortly after it was released the amazing graphics and the overwhelmingly positive reviews prompted me to waste both my money and time on Skyrim: Dragonborn)
Also recently I purchased one of the games in the Settlers series, and in the Anno series, but I've found that the manuals and the tutorials/missions don't adequately explain how to use the interface, never mind play the game.

I must say I really enjoyed Dishonored and Deus Ex Human Revolution, but stealth games are not my favorite genre.
So if you started gaming before 1990, and you like the same kinds of games I do, are there any recommendations you could make?

{Bean counters... destroy variety because we really need thousands of clones of the three most popular games}

PS: I don't play multiplayer games or purchase DLC.
I've been playing games since the Atari 7800 era and back mid-to-late 80's when I was a kid.

Since you mentioned Dishonored and that "immersive sim", have you played Prey 2017 Reboot also by Arkane Studios?

It's basically System Shock 2 (FPS/RPG mix and "immersive sim") and Dishonored series (action/stealth/"immersive sim") had a baby.

Prey 2017 is awesome, IMHO.

Also loved Deus Ex series, BTW....except for Invisible War. I liked IW - but I pretty much by a mile prefer every other major Deus Ex title by a mile (Deus Ex GOTY, Deus Ex HR, and Deus Ex MD).
I go back to the 1970s, and I have some of the same issues that you do (i.e. poor coordination and a distaste for multiplayer games). I've been into role playing games from the start, ever since I first played Adventure on the Atari VCS and the early Ultima games on the Atari 800. I like the big open-ended games such as Skyrim, but in those types of games, I sometimes end up just living my life in the game world and not paying too much attention to major quests. However, I'm not always in the mood for that type of game and sometimes want something that is more bounded.

Since you go way back, you may be familiar with some of the older ones on the list.

The Ultima series: You may have played some or all of these, as they are old and very well known. They are rather open ended, but since they are smaller than modern games, they don't seem so overwhelming and don't require hundreds of hours. Ultima V and earlier haven't aged well and can feature tedious combat, but Ultima VI and VII are still quite playable and the Ultima Underworld series is a lot of fun. The remakes using Dungeon Siege as an engine (Ultima V Lazarus and Ultima VI Project) are excellent but might be a bit too big and open-ended for your taste, as they expand considerably upon the originals. Dungeon Siege itself might be worth a look too, but so far, I've only played the Ultima remakes in Dungeon Siege and haven't gotten around to the actual Dungeon Siege game yet.

Spiderweb games: Spiderweb Software continues to produce games that are firmly stuck in the 1990s - in a good way. If you like the Ultima games, you might like these. You might want to search for some gameplay footage on YouTube or download a demo from their website to see if you might like their style. Their recent games have better balance and more streamlined gameplay mechanics than their earlier ones while still sticking to that trademark Spiderweb 1990s aesthetic. Recommended series: Avadon - fairly linear stories with map areas that open up as the story progresses - a system that is quite the opposite of open-world/open-ended and keeps the story moving at a good pace. Others: Avernum (the latest remakes: Escape from the Pit, Crystal Souls, and Ruined World) - might be good if you try Avadon and enjoy it, but these are bigger and maybe uncomfortably close to the open-ended style that you are trying to avoid. Queen's Wish: The Conqueror - the first entry in a new series, this one adds a bit of a base building mechanic to the standard RPG formula. They are currently working on a remake of the first game in the Geneforge series - I'm looking forward to that, as the older games in that series are showing their age and could use a refresh.

Eschalon series: These are also rather old-school style role playing games. They are fairly linear, with new map areas opening up as the story progresses, so they never seem overwhelming. The first game is the smallest and most linear of the three and is probably closest to meeting your requirements, but all three may be good choices.

Balrum: Another old-school style role playing game, this one is also relatively small and self contained but has a lot of content in each game area. If you like building and customizing your own player house, this game has that feature, but it isn't necessary to take full advantage of it. Planting some crops in the player house area is, however, a good idea, as is building at least a minimal home with a place to sleep, some crafting tables, and some storage chests. (I love this feature and spent a lot of time tinkering with it while I was playing the game.)

Various historical city building games: There are many of these on GOG. For the most part, these games offer both open-ended city building (which I like but you probably don't want) and campaign modes (which might be the sort of thing you are looking for in a strategy game). Examples include the Caesar series, Pharaoh, Emperor - Rise of the Middle Kingdom, and Children of the Nile. As an example, I'll refer to Children of the Nile, but all of these work similarly. This game is ancient Egyptian themed. In the campaign mode, you build cities on various maps and have specific goals to meet in terms of production, monument building, and defeating enemies. The campaign starts small, with the tutorial cities only requiring a few minutes each. Later campaign missions may require a few hours. The nice thing about the campaigns is that each map is self-contained and requires a few hours at most (although building large pyramids is a bit of a slog). This makes it easy to set the game aside for days or months and come back to it later without having to remember what you had done, since with each city map, the process starts anew. If you are in the mood for a slower paced game where you will spend some time just watching things happen and have plenty of time to think about what you want to do next, this one is a good choice. I have a bit of a preference for Children of the Nile over the others I have listed, in large part because the "walker" system that most of the others use to manage services in the cities is wonky and rather artificial in its effects - the cities in Children of the Nile have a more organic, realistic feel to them.

The Anno games are good, but there is a bit of a learning curve. I love Anno 1404, but it took a bit of effort to get into it. If you want to give it another try, look for hints online or watch some gameplay footage on YouTube.

Hopefully I'm on the right track with at least some of these. Check out demos, reviews, or gameplay footage on YouTube where possible before purchasing if you are uncertain. Many of them are rather old, but they are still good. There are probably others. I'm always on the lookout for games like this, and I probably have other suitable ones in my collection that I just haven't had time to play yet. If I think of anything else, I'll post more suggestions here.
Post edited August 11, 2020 by heather1348
Thank you for your recommendations and insights.

Actually I thought city building games and railway building games (and not the Sims) fell under the category of 'sims', but yes... love'm. There is a DOS game called Master of Magic which I still play at least twice a month, but after a quarter century of playing, it's getting a little old.
{If ever a game needed an updated version...}

MysterD:
So far, Deus Ex, has been my favorite series in the genre. I do play Invisible War, but it always seemed like it was a Chinese knock-off product that EA purchased and re-Branded as their own. Also, I found 'The Fall' to be unplayable because the game only had a 40% chance of acting upon a keystroke and took 3 to 30 seconds to react to a keystroke.
Not good for stealth/combat situations.

heather1348:
Anno 1404, is one of two I purchased recently and the only one I've played. But you can have one ship follow another by selecting one ship, right clicking the other, and then tell your original ship to follow. Nowhere online, nor in the documentation, nor even in the 'official' and unofficial strategy guides is there information telling us that. I only found out by accident, and since I find the game 'lacking' I've wondered if there are other 'lacks' which aren't lacking but just undocumented. {Asked in that forum, but was only directed to information I already had.}

Thanks again, and thank you to those who have not yet replied.

PS: I haven't been able to get Silent Service II to run under DOSBox. When I checked out reviews on submarine games, one reviewer agreed with everyone else about which were best, but added that they were all so bad he wouldn't waste his money; worse, these games were the best in the last few years.
So a good sub game recommendation would be appreciated too!
Space game akin to Digital Anvil Freelancer?
Post edited August 11, 2020 by TrainedMedium
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TrainedMedium: To continue,, what some call 'open ended' I often find to be nauseatingly repetitive and unchanging (even though I promised myself I would never buy another game in the series, shortly after it was released the amazing graphics and the overwhelmingly positive reviews prompted me to waste both my money and time on Skyrim: Dragonborn)

[snip]

I must say I really enjoyed Dishonored and Deus Ex Human Revolution, but stealth games are not my favorite genre.
So if you started gaming before 1990, and you like the same kinds of games I do, are there any recommendations you could make?

{Bean counters... destroy variety because we really need thousands of clones of the three most popular games}

PS: I don't play multiplayer games or purchase DLC.
You played Skyrim: Dragonborn, which is technically DLC. I thought that was quite good, added a cool new area to Skyrim, and also felt like a real good throw-back to ES3: Morrowind and their expansions. Also added numerous hours of content to the game too.

Also, some games and remastered/released editions like Deus Ex: HR Director's Cut come equipped with their DLC's. Missing Link DLC is pretty much essential and important to Deus Ex HR, IMHO.

I take DLC's, Season Passes, and expansions on a case-by-case status. Often, depends on how much content is there and also how much it costs.

Some games, they really need their DLC's - even if it's short. Depends on the reason. Could be numerous different reasons.

Sometimes, games can get new content that is also very important to the franchise's lore and other things of that sort - BioWare seems to do this a lot, in their DLC's (i.e. see Jaws of Hakkon and The Descent for Dragon Age: Inquisition; and Dragon Age: Origins - Leilana's Song & Witch Hunt). Some games, DLC's fill-in and give the game something it was missing, lacking, or probably needs more of - like a boss fight (see Rise of the Tomb Raider: Baba Yaga DLC); add more variety to a game that needs that b/c it's often repetitive and doesn't have enough mission types (i.e. see Mafia 3); and/or add interesting new content, gimmicks, areas, and/or levels to the game (see Deus Ex: A Criminal Past DLC).
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TrainedMedium: MysterD:
So far, Deus Ex, has been my favorite series in the genre. I do play Invisible War, but it always seemed like it was a Chinese knock-off product that EA purchased and re-Branded as their own. Also, I found 'The Fall' to be unplayable because the game only had a 40% chance of acting upon a keystroke and took 3 to 30 seconds to react to a keystroke.
Not good for stealth/combat situations.
I certainly would not consider Deus Ex: The Fall as a main title. That's a spin-off and side game - it was really made for mobile, not PC. It just...so happened to get later ported here, probably to try to cash-in on the Deus Ex name/brand.

The main titles of Deus Ex are as follows - Deus Ex (original); Deus Ex: Invisible War (for better and/or worse); Deus Ex: Human Revolution; and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided.
Post edited August 11, 2020 by MysterD
Yes. I have 5 of the Deus Ex games because they are my favorite of the genre.

Haven't played MD yet.
Post edited August 12, 2020 by TrainedMedium
Prey is an obvious suggestion if you liked Deus Ex and Dishonored that much.

Have you played the recent X-Com games? They're turn-based strategy but with AAA production values.

On the RPG front, maybe try Piranha Bytes games? They're like shorter and smaller Skyrim style games but in third-person. They can be a little hard at first if you storm into battle, but level up a bit and they generally become quite easy. They have a lot of fun personality and focus a lot on dialogue and choices. Gothic 2 is considered their best but if you want to go newer maybe try Risen or Elex.
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TrainedMedium: I really enjoy RPG's
Try Divine Divinity.
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TrainedMedium: PS: I haven't been able to get Silent Service II to run under DOSBox. When I checked out reviews on submarine games, one reviewer agreed with everyone else about which were best, but added that they were all so bad he wouldn't waste his money; worse, these games were the best in the last few years.
So a good sub game recommendation would be appreciated too!
Space game akin to Digital Anvil Freelancer?
When you state that you can't run Silent Service 2 on Dosbox, are you talking about the GOG version?
https://www.gog.com/game/silent_service_12

And here are some suggestions if you're into "submarine" games:
https://www.gog.com/game/subwar_2050_complete
https://www.gog.com/game/silent_hunter_2
https://www.gog.com/game/archimedean_dynasty
https://www.gog.com/game/aquanox
https://www.gog.com/game/aquanox_2_revelation

And if you enjoyed Freelancer, then maybe you'll like these too:
https://www.gog.com/game/wing_commander_privateer
https://www.gog.com/game/privateer_2_the_darkening
https://www.gog.com/game/independence_war_2
https://www.gog.com/game/darkstar_one
https://www.gog.com/game/x_gold
https://www.gog.com/game/x2_the_threat
https://www.gog.com/game/x3_reunion
https://www.gog.com/game/x4_foundations
Another shoutout for the famous Sierra City Builders, starting from Caesar 3.

For pure sim goodness check out OpenTTD, though here you will have to spend a small amount of time learning the basics.
Or even OpenRCT2

For a more strategic spin on the sim genre, XCom-UFO Defense with OpenXcom.

If it was still here, then Startopia :(

Both Dungeon Keeper and Majesty gives you the strategy kick in a sim wrapper without the frantic clicking and micro.

and finally it's quite disconcerting that no-one's mentioned the first 2 Fallout games
Post edited August 12, 2020 by Matewis
I also suggest giving Prey a go, it's currently on sale too, it's great fun.

Matewis has the right idea with the fallout series. 1 & 2 are vastly different RPGs to 3 & New Vegas (3 & NV are like Skyrim, but after a nuclear war), it may be worth giving them a go. Again, currently on sale.
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TrainedMedium: There is a DOS game called Master of Magic which I still play at least twice a month, but after a quarter century of playing, it's getting a little old.
I think we're going to get along well. If you haven't played the Age of Wonders series I'd definitely recommend giving that a look- I'd consider AoW2/AoW: Shadow Magic to be the height of the series, but the recent AoW3 and expansions was also very good. The recent AoW:Planetfall was also quite good, probably the most competent translation of the genre into a sci-fi setting since Alpha Centauri.

On the RPG side of things, I'd second StingingVelvet's recommendation of some of the Piranha Bytes games- gameplay is similar to the Elder Scrolls series, but the games have much tighter narrative arcs with clear endings, so you shouldn't get that feeling of repetitiveness that put you off Skyrim. The world design in the games as also excellent, making the game worlds really enjoyable to explore. Gothic 1 and 2 are a bit dated, although I'd also consider Gothic 2 (plus expansion) to be the pinnacle of the PB games. Gothic 1, Risen 1, and Elex are all good starting points.

Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 are also definitely worth looking at if you haven't played them. Excellent tactical party-based combat, large worlds to explore, but strong story-driven progression. The games are self-contained enough you can easily start with either one.

Finally, you may want to take a look at Underrail, essentially the spiritual successor to Fallout 1 and 2. Excellent tactical combat with lots of build diversity, well-designed world to explore, with a strong enough narrative arc to keep things moving along well.
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TrainedMedium: There is a DOS game called Master of Magic which I still play at least twice a month, but after a quarter century of playing, it's getting a little old.
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DarrkPhoenix: I think we're going to get along well. If you haven't played the Age of Wonders series I'd definitely recommend giving that a look- I'd consider AoW2/AoW: Shadow Magic to be the height of the series, but the recent AoW3 and expansions was also very good. The recent AoW:Planetfall was also quite good, probably the most competent translation of the genre into a sci-fi setting since Alpha Centauri.

On the RPG side of things, I'd second StingingVelvet's recommendation of some of the Piranha Bytes games- gameplay is similar to the Elder Scrolls series, but the games have much tighter narrative arcs with clear endings, so you shouldn't get that feeling of repetitiveness that put you off Skyrim. The world design in the games as also excellent, making the game worlds really enjoyable to explore. Gothic 1 and 2 are a bit dated, although I'd also consider Gothic 2 (plus expansion) to be the pinnacle of the PB games. Gothic 1, Risen 1, and Elex are all good starting points.

Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 are also definitely worth looking at if you haven't played them. Excellent tactical party-based combat, large worlds to explore, but strong story-driven progression. The games are self-contained enough you can easily start with either one.

Finally, you may want to take a look at Underrail, essentially the spiritual successor to Fallout 1 and 2. Excellent tactical combat with lots of build diversity, well-designed world to explore, with a strong enough narrative arc to keep things moving along well.
Thanks for a bunch of games to check out. They also seem right up my alley,
Heroes of Might and Magic III (fantasy strategy/turn-based tactics) -- around 120 hours worth of campaigns & limitless randomized maps for extra content
Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2 (turn-based fantasy RPG) -- around 75-115 hours of playtime each
I Am Not a Monster: First Contact (turn-based space fantasy tactics) -- around 35 hours
Shadowrun series (turn-based cyberpunk RPG) --around 10 hours for first game, 20 for the other 2
Xenonauts (sci-fi turn-based tactics) --around 30-40 hours
XCOM: Enemy Unknown (sci-fi turn-based tactics) -- around 30-40 hours for main game and the same for the expansion

If you decide you feel like giving point-and-click adventure games a go, here are some recommendations (playtime is usually between 4-10 hours per game):
Agent A: A Puzzle in Disguise (short, simple and fun)
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars (considered a classic of the genre)
Curse of Monkey Island, The (one of the best games of the genre)
Day of the Tentacle (same as above)
Full Throttle (considered a classic)
Gabriel Knight (one of the best games of the genre)
Grim Fandango (considered by many to be the best of the genre)
Leisure Suit Larry: Love for Sail! (considered the best in the series)
Monkey Island 2 (one of the best games, and personal favorite)
Myst (one of the best)
Secret of Monkey Island, The (one of the best)
Pong. Now get off my lawn.