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Brasas: By the way... If you want to play in a forum Resistance game, I'll be happy to mod or assist mod. Unlike Mafia games the setup does not really require balancing, so should be straighforward. And I think it worked fairly well, but would like to see at least 3 more games still with vanilla Resistance to confirm being able to keep the vote registry is not OP towards town.
Town may get a boost (maybe) in keeping the vote registry, but they also take a hit in that spies won't reveal knee jerk reactions or pauses, etc. For example, I recall you commenting at one point that you wish you could see who was the last person to vote.

And keep in mind that spies might be able to use the registry to provide disinformation.

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Brasas: Anyway, read it. Noticed it is kind of hard to figure out when the comments were being made.
Thought for the future - observers can make some posts framing: Mission 1 votes just in. Mission 1 just passed. Etc...
You kind of have to guess at rough line up of observer comments, based on what people are commenting about. If you are really dedicated, you can also try comparing dates of posts in one thread to dates of posts in the other thread.

Maybe I'm just used to it, but I mostly can follow along with comments, if I've been through the game thread. Observers tend to provide enough reference to take a guess at the big events (or else post numbers, if there are particular things).

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Brasas: First, with how Agent was voting and now your comments, I really wonder if my group's meta is that unusual. I can kind of see a probabilistic case for being default trusting on the very first mission - chances are you luck onto all resistance after all. And I will easily admit I / we never manage to get all players to go for the no no no strategy. But I really don't see how playing to make life easier for spies is overall good. Yes, spies have to also be distrustful to fit in. But they have the temptation of breaking cover. And when missions Fail or Pass (we always approve the last one precisely because we want that data as well) there is something to tie it all.
If your objective is to see who wants to put whom on a team, then you can't go about it by just failing lots of teams. If I'm a spy and I know that my team choice is likely to fail because people want to see lots of who is choosing whom for a team, then I'm going to use that to feed you disinformation.

Waiting until the 5th proposal to pass a team doesn't really tell you anything about people's feelings on that team, either. Resistance absolutely has to pass it, or they lose. Spies have to pass it because Resistance has to pass it.

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Brasas: And really in tabletop no one really rememebers all the votes. You are trying to remember the ones that were strange and make a theory on why the heck.
Team proposals and team votes simply have too much room for WIFOM for them to be truly reliable. It is the mission results that really matter.

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Brasas: Second. About the "people can leave the table" guess. What gave you that idea? We play very much like you. Even down to doing it in the kitchen. :D
I had the impression that people in your play group can have at least semi-private conversations mid-game. How do you manage that without some space away from other players?

Edit: Also, I think I'd like to play a round or two with you, Brasas. :D
Post edited June 23, 2016 by Bookwyrm627
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Bookwyrm627: If your objective is to see who wants to put whom on a team, then you can't go about it by just failing lots of teams. If I'm a spy and I know that my team choice is likely to fail because people want to see lots of who is choosing whom for a team, then I'm going to use that to feed you disinformation.
You got the wrong idea of an orderly process clearly. :)

We don't just fail lots of teams. We push each other hard about why choosing X or Y and any "weird" votes (they might not be weird at all, of course). But we go through the motions fast. The first mission of course is more relaxed and goes to 5th captain almost always. But then it all shakes loose from it Passing or Failing and everyone deciding who they will ride with. We have it almost as standard opening moves so to speak. Later missions do not always go to 5th, usually they go to 3rd though. As mentioned it's not like the group homegeneously goes with the trusting or the distrusting meta.

And of course you feed disinformation. For effect, in the middle of all the FUD :)

The way we have semi-private conversations mid game is simple - we're all speaking to each other at the same time, so I might be trying to sell someone on action X, the guy sitting next to me is winking at someone in front telling them they totes trust them, and the girl on my other side is already telling three others they are the ones she chooses for the team. I exagerate of course, but we are loud and messy. And you can hide so much in that. ;)

And, I trust we'll have a chance. ;)
Well, that was interesting and fun to follow. Too bad it ended so quickly - being the bad guy is not that easy when there's no private communication to co-ordinate, eh Dessimu? ;-)

Would definitely like to see a couple of more vanilla Resistance games before roles are introduced.



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Brasas: [...]

@ all

It's particularly hard for me to know how much to push on stuff like this. Are these scum slips or noob errors? Or just JMich being JMich? He is the cautious, stand back type...

[...]
When I read this post, I was tempted to post "He's scum". You did address it to all, after all.
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Brasas: By the way... If you want to play in a forum Resistance game, I'll be happy to mod or assist mod. Unlike Mafia games the setup does not really require balancing, so should be straighforward. And I think it worked fairly well, but would like to see at least 3 more games still with vanilla Resistance to confirm being able to keep the vote registry is not OP towards town.
I would like to play sometime. You could probably also run Avalon rules.

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Brasas: First, with how Agent was voting and now your comments, I really wonder if my group's meta is that unusual.
Before I ran this game I read through one on BoardGameGeek just to see how they did it. The playstyle was definitely more similar to yours.
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HypersomniacLive: snip
Heh... didn't cross my mind even.

So here's the protip: Brasas loves his soapbox - and why limit the audience? ;)

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Leonard03: snip
They have Forum Resistance over on BGG? Tempting...

Still, playing with people you know is at least half the fun. :)

We'll make it happen for you. Really appreciate you having done this. I don't like sharing too much personal stuff, but I want to say this, so you get some inclination how much it mattered. What with the family growth, a job change decision to make, and having dental surgery - this game was really welcome distraction and fun to play. Despite the tension, or perhaps because of the tension ;)
@leonard - thanks for the game, it was fun. I'd play again, but also with a bunch of mostly newbies cause i know I'm not quite getting it.

@Brasas - thanks for being patient with all of us

@lift - two spies...wow...but as i mentioned, i would have chosen those two as well for the first mission

@HijacK. :-p
:)

My reads sucked, more than usual.

@all - thanks for a fun game
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cristigale: @HijacK. :-p
:)

My reads sucked, more than usual.
hah! even if so, the way you played allowed you to be obvi-resistance and I found that to be a huge help/maybe have won the game simply because you couldn't be denied!

just remember, read hijack, then go with the reverse! I'll be watching your reads of him in future games (:

This is actually 1 thing I do a lot of from game to game, I remember who reads who well or poorly (if a pattern of such emerges over numerous games) and use them as factors in my reads - example: cristi is reading hijack town, and I am reading him scum, and she usually reads him wrong, so that gives me another notch towards hijack leaning scum because either 1.) she's likely reading him wrong or, 2.) they're scum-buddies and she's clearing him, of course obviously he could still be town.

certainly nothing solid or decisive, just another factor to consider, and I pretty much do the same with myself too (I know I read so-and-so wrong all the time, so I'll just go with the opposite, or I know so-and-so reads me wrong always, so it doesn't mean much, etc.)
@drealmer - thanks, I over-corrected. I had Hijack as town D1 last game (actually thought he was trying to draw the NK with the doctor hint, not that he was breadcrumbing the role ) and then allowed others arguments to sway me D2 to vote lynch. So, yes, I tunnel towned him this game.
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drealmer7: This is actually 1 thing I do a lot of from game to game, I remember who reads who well or poorly (if a pattern of such emerges over numerous games) and use them as factors in my reads - example: cristi is reading hijack town, and I am reading him scum, and she usually reads him wrong
Since when? I don't think you got it right. One game is a terrible indication of patterns. Not only that, but the game is dynamic. Thinking of it in a static way will lead you tu terrible reading of players.
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drealmer7: This is actually 1 thing I do a lot of from game to game, I remember who reads who well or poorly (if a pattern of such emerges over numerous games) and use them as factors in my reads - example: cristi is reading hijack town, and I am reading him scum, and she usually reads him wrong
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HijacK: Since when? I don't think you got it right. One game is a terrible indication of patterns. Not only that, but the game is dynamic. Thinking of it in a static way will lead you tu terrible reading of players.
In fact, 1 game has no pattern at all. It has to be pretty consistent over multiple games, I think there's actually only 2 people it applies to, and the example I gave of cristi and you was not one of them, and it's not like it's the over-riding factor on how I make my read, it's just another of many.
Something I want to mention!

not to be overlooked or downplayed in importance:

The flavor was done excellently! Who is to be credited? It almost seems like it comes from a game-pack for the table-top version or something, but I was imagining you, Leonard, had written it the whole time, but was also wondering if wyrm contributed any, or what the deal with the flavor was! Either way, I ate it up, of course. A lot of times things done so succinctly don't quite pull it off so well, but all of it here was right on to get us into the setup and then each mission.

I wished I would have had more time to RP with more elaboration, but everything moved so fast and was new and so I didn't even really think of trying to get into it with any seriousness/in relation to flavor w/ any amount of flavor.

I hope to remedy this next time there is a Resistance game!

I would definitely be interested in Avalon flavor too, to switch it back and forth.
Post edited June 24, 2016 by drealmer7
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drealmer7: The flavor was done excellently! Who is to be credited?
I take no credit for the flavor; credit is due to Leonard for that. The base game always left me with more an impression of Shinra than Skynet.
Post edited June 24, 2016 by Bookwyrm627
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Brasas: They have Forum Resistance over on BGG? Tempting...
In fact it was HSL who pointed it out when I first expressed interest in running a Resistance game on here.

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Brasas: We'll make it happen for you. Really appreciate you having done this. I don't like sharing too much personal stuff, but I want to say this, so you get some inclination how much it mattered. What with the family growth, a job change decision to make, and having dental surgery - this game was really welcome distraction and fun to play. Despite the tension, or perhaps because of the tension ;)
Thanks for sharing, I'm really glad to hear that.

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drealmer7: The flavor was done excellently! Who is to be credited?
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Bookwyrm627: I take no credit for the flavor; credit is due to Leonard for that. The base game always left me with more an impression of Shinra than Skynet.
I had to google those but, yes I would agree with you. I just had robots on my mind XD
I don't really like the game name though.


Also, much thanks to Bookwyrm for helping bang out the quirks on the mod side of things.
Post edited June 24, 2016 by Leonard03
Ever have those times where you barely have time to think for, like, 3 days in a row? Yeah...

Well, I'm here now.

@Brasas - If you've got any specific questions, go ahead and ask. Otherwise, I'll try to put together something about my playstyle and post it later today.
Why so trusting? :)

PS: Yes, my mood is getting better. Even cutting on the painkillers... let's see what happens.
Post edited June 25, 2016 by Brasas