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DaCostaBR: Now what I'm curious about is people's stance on the Russo brothers directing Avengers Infinity War 1 and 2.
Unless I end up hating Civil War I'm ok with that choice. Whedon lost me with Age of Ultron, and Marvel's only other choice, the way I see it, would be James Gunn. Considering how I hate Guardians of the Galaxy you can imagine how I'd feel about that.

I'm just a little wary of Infinity War as I fear it's just going to be too much. There has to be some limit of how many characters you can have in one movie before you reach some critical mass. Again, I'm not saying it's going to be bad, I'm just saying I'm pretty lukewarm about it.

Weird as it is, the superhero movie I'm most excited about is probably Wonder Woman, and that's not something I espected to say just a couple of years ago.
Post edited April 29, 2016 by Breja
I personally think Mathew Vaugh's two Kickass sequels would be the best thing. And Lobo, The Sandman and The Preacher (God, I thought I heard Seth Rogan has something to do with The Preacher, please no.)

I want to see X-Force done right as well, please not Bryan Singer. As good as his Xmen movies are he misses as much or more than he gets right.
So how does this compare vs Batman vs Superman?
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Niggles: So how does this compare vs Batman vs Superman?
I prefer "Civil War" by far. Even if we leave the tonal differences aside ("Civil War" is obviously a lot more lighthearted than "Dawn of Justice" but doesn't lack drama either), I simply think that it's better made. DoJ felt pretty disjointed to me at times, whereas "Civil War" has a very good flow and handles its huge cast of characters quite well, giving almost everybody the chance to shine, and not just in the action scenes. There is a LOT of good character interaction between the heroes, even when they're on different sides in the conflict.

I still want to see DoJ's 3-hour-cut, but "Civil War" makes a strong case for itself.
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DaCostaBR: I'm actually glad, I was a bit sick of Whedon to be honest. He has a problem with character voices, everyone sounds exactly the same, nothing but zingers and quips.
I was actually hoping to see them take Thanos down purely with quips and banter.
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Nergal01: I prefer "Civil War" by far. Even if we leave the tonal differences aside ("Civil War" is obviously a lot more lighthearted than "Dawn of Justice" but doesn't lack drama either), I simply think that it's better made. DoJ felt pretty disjointed to me at times, whereas "Civil War" has a very good flow and handles its huge cast of characters quite well, giving almost everybody the chance to shine, and not just in the action scenes. There is a LOT of good character interaction between the heroes, even when they're on different sides in the conflict.

I still want to see DoJ's 3-hour-cut, but "Civil War" makes a strong case for itself.
Pretty accurate review of the movie, I've seen it yesterday and it's definitely something worth watching.
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Niggles: So how does this compare vs Batman vs Superman?
Just saw Civil War last night, and as far as comparing it in terms of "The good guys turn on each other!" with BvS (and keeping in mind I've read Batman and Superman since childhood, and didn't really know much about Iron Man or Captain America before their movies came out), I'd say that their central conflict is much more meaningful and emotionally investing than BvS, although almost as logically unsound, but that bothered me less here.

Not sure how fair it is to compare it like that, though, we've had a dozen movies to build up to this, while BvS just had one or two.

Other than that, it was good entertaining fun. And I know I'm adding my voice to thousands and thousands in an oversaturated statement, but Spiderman (and even Ant-Man) were great fun!
Post edited May 08, 2016 by babark
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Niggles: So how does this compare vs Batman vs Superman?
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babark: Just saw Civil War last night, and as far as comparing it in terms of "The good guys turn on each other!" with BvS (and keeping in mind I've read Batman and Superman since childhood, and didn't really know much about Iron Man or Captain America before their movies came out), I'd say that their central conflict is much more meaningful and emotionally investing than BvS, although almost as logically unsound, but that bothered me less here.

Not sure how fair it is to compare it like that, though, we've had a dozen movies to build up to this, while BvS just had one or two.

Other than that, it was good entertaining fun. And I know I'm adding my voice to thousands and thousands in an oversaturated statement, but Spiderman (and even Ant-Man) were great fun!
It's somehow dishearting how only one of both pictures death, yet does it without setting it up properly (or anything properly) isn't it?
Seen both movies --- were they supposed to have similar themes? ie BvsS --> hero too much power must have checks in place blah blah
CA:CV... similar........anyway i found CA:CV more fun and actiony (is there such a word). Add one more fan of the new Spiderman (Antman to lesser degree) :)
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Niggles: Seen both movies --- were they supposed to have similar themes? ie BvsS --> hero too much power must have checks in place blah blah
CA:CV... similar.......
Well, the reason Marvel made Civil War in the first place was that Warner/DC announced Batman v Superman.
Do you like big awesome fights?

Then you'll love Civil War.

Do you like great casting choices?

Then you'll love Civil War

Do you like the plot to have a roller coaster like momentum?

Then you'll love Civil War

Do you like well written insight into character motivations and sound plot development?

Then you'll hate Civil War

Also the new Spiderman is the BEST Spiderman EVER!
low rated
What the public's reaction to any superhero movie these days should be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MxKbpCpf3I

And why:

http://grantland.com/features/2014-hollywood-blockbusters-franchises-box-office/
Ah, shit. It's time to be the lone crazy guy again.

This is not a good movie. It's not terrible, but it's not good either. It's mediocre at best. Better than Age of Ultron, but not nearly as good as Winter Soldier and yes, vastly inferior to Batman v Superman, to which the comparisons are unavoidable.

Spoilers for all those movies and possibly more follow.

This movie is a mess. It has too many characters, to many plot points, it can't even decide on what the characters are actually fighting about. Is it about the Sokovian Accords? is it about getting/protecting Bucky? Because those two things are tangentially related at best. In the last 15 minutes of the movie we switch gears yet again, when Tony admits he was wrong, makes peace with the Captain and Bucky, but then it turns out Bucky (while a brainwashed Hydra agent) killed Tony's parents, and we're back to fighting, only now Tony just wants revenge, and the Accords have shit all to do with the movie's climax.

Black Panther is really the only character here with a clear motivation. Other than that it really feels like the movie is distorting everything, events and characters from the previous movies, to accomodate the premise of the heroes punching each other. Captain America and Tony find themselves on the exact opposite sides of the "responsibility" debate then they were in Ultron. Now, Tony's actions in that movie should could easily have been the reason for him to go all " we need to be controlled", but the way he played god and laughed while doing so barely gets a single sentence of mention. It really makes no sense whatsover for Tony not to listen when Cap explains about Bucky being framed and Zemo awaking a squad of evil supersoldiers. There is no reason for this hostility, just as it makes no sense for Cap of all people, a goddamn soldier, to just outright refuse the idea of taking orders from anyone.

Say what you will about BvS, that movie spend a good deal of time to establish why Batman is so obsessed with Superman, why he is so angry and irrational, and why he doesn't listen.

The tone of the movie is all over the place. Spider-Man's introduction is just cringe worthy. Just as things are finally picking up, and some tension between the characters builds, we 're suddenly in this quirky "Tony meets Peter" scene, with a character who no one in this universe knows and has no stake in any of it whatsoever, joking about Spider-Man's homemade costume and Aunt May being hot. For a good ten minutes the movie just grinds to a halt, to accomodate introducing him into the MCU. Black Panther has a similiar problem. He should have had a solo movie before. When his father dies, I couldn't help but think about Star Trek into Darkness. When in that movie Captain PIke dies (in a very similar scene by the way) the audience feels that as a loss, and really gets Kirk's anger, because we know the character, and their relationship. Here, we're told it, but it doesn't have the same effect. The big airplane fight scene just feels off, there is plenty jokes, it's hard to say if we're supposed to treat this as some tragic breaking up of the Avengers, when everyone keeps joking about it.

Winter Soldier was just a much more focused, consistant movie.

What really saves the movie is the final act. It may throw the Accords thing entirely out the airlock, but at least in Tony's anger over his parents (I love how RDJ delivers the line "It doesn't matter. He killed my mom") and Captain's stubborn refusal to abandon his childhood friend there finally is a conflict between them I get and can belive. Even Zemo, who up to that point is a villain even lamer than BvS Luthor, with almost zero presence, finally gets a scene that gives him proper motivation and ads some much needed gravitas to his scheming. I applaud the actor, who made that one scene really work. As he talked about taking two days to dig up the bodies of his family in Sokovia, I really felt for him.

As for the action, there are some really good scenes, chases, fights. It's all fine. But again, it doesn't hold a candle in my opinion to BvS. Say what you will about Snyder, he does action exceedingly well.

And in the end, none of it really seems to matter. Everyone fought, but it's pretty much spelled out in the end, that we'll all be friends again, because Infinity War. No one died, even Rhody's injuries are going to be handwaved away. Again, it's more about setting up the future movies, Spider-Man in particular, but also Infinity War, then about doing this one really well. BvS had a shitload of set up for the future movies, I won't deny that, but compared to this it was subtle and well integrated into the story.

Well, there it is. I hope that, even if you disagree, as most of you probably do, what I said made some sense to you.
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Breja: Ah, shit. It's time to be the lone crazy guy again.
Nah, you're not alone.

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Breja: This is not a good movie. It's not terrible, but it's not good either. It's mediocre at best. Better than Age of Ultron, but not nearly as good as Winter Soldier and yes, vastly inferior to Batman v Superman, to which the comparisons are unavoidable.
I dunno...I found it a good movie, and I found BvS just a touch better.

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Breja: This movie is a mess. It has too many characters, to many plot points, it can't even decide on what the characters are actually fighting about. Is it about the Sokovian Accords? is it about getting/protecting Bucky? Because those two things are tangentially related at best. In the last 15 minutes of the movie we switch gears yet again, when Tony admits he was wrong, makes peace with the Captain and Bucky, but then it turns out Bucky (while a brainwashed Hydra agent) killed Tony's parents, and we're back to fighting, only now Tony just wants revenge, and the Accords have shit all to do with the movie's climax.
Yep. That was one of my biggest problems with the movie.

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Breja: Black Panther is really the only character here with a clear motivation. Other than that it really feels like the movie is distorting everything, events and characters from the previous movies, to accomodate the premise of the heroes punching each other. Captain America and Tony find themselves on the exact opposite sides of the "responsibility" debate then they were in Ultron. Now, Tony's actions in that movie should could easily have been the reason for him to go all " we need to be controlled", but the way he played god and laughed while doing so barely gets a single sentence of mention. It really makes no sense whatsover for Tony not to listen when Cap explains about Bucky being framed and Zemo awaking a squad of evil supersoldiers. There is no reason for this hostility, just as it makes no sense for Cap of all people, a goddamn soldier, to just outright refuse the idea of taking orders from anyone.
Not to mention that Iron Man was also pretty poorly written here. Much work has been done in three Iron Man movies and two Avengers movies to establish Iron Man as a very multi-faceted character: a borderline sociopath, a master manipulator, an OCDist who is paranoid about not being in control of a situation. The three Iron Man movies and Age of Ultron were basically storylines about how Iron Man creates his own demons through his own arrogance and insecurities.

Civil War inexplicably reduced him to a sycophantic wreck who spends most of the time pining over Pepper Potts (whose absence is due to no other reason than Gwyneth Paltrow couldn't be signed on), sucking up to Thunderbolt Ross, and lashing out irrationally without any consideration of the circumstances, all of which basically toss away everything that the past MCU set up so beautifully.

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Breja: The tone of the movie is all over the place. Spider-Man's introduction is just cringe worthy. Just as things are finally picking up, and some tension between the characters builds, we 're suddenly in this quirky "Tony meets Peter" scene, with a character who no one in this universe knows and has no stake in any of it whatsoever, joking about Spider-Man's homemade costume and Aunt May being hot. For a good ten minutes the movie just grinds to a halt, to accomodate introducing him into the MCU. Black Panther has a similiar problem. He should have had a solo movie before. When his father dies, I couldn't help but think about Star Trek into Darkness. When in that movie Captain PIke dies (in a very similar scene by the way) the audience feels that as a loss, and really gets Kirk's anger, because we know the character, and their relationship. Here, we're told it, but it doesn't have the same effect. The big airplane fight scene just feels off, there is plenty jokes, it's hard to say if we're supposed to treat this as some tragic breaking up of the Avengers, when everyone keeps joking about it.
Spiderman and the airport scene were fun though. In the general context the scene made little sense other than to pit all the superheroes against one another, but Spiderman's running commentary almost had me on the floor laughing.

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Breja: Winter Soldier was just a much more focused, consistant movie.
Agreed. Also, aside from the much more intelligent and focused storyline, Winter Soldier had something that the rest of the MCU lacked to date: set pieces that felt weighty and intense. Part of that was down to the production team achieving a decent balance between CGI and practical effects, but Civil War just tossed it away for a CGI-fest again.

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Breja: What really saves the movie is the final act. It may throw the Accords thing entirely out the airlock, but at least in Tony's anger over his parents (I love how RDJ delivers the line "It doesn't matter. He killed my mom") and Captain's stubborn refusal to abandon his childhood friend there finally is a conflict between them I get and can belive. Even Zemo, who up to that point is a villain even lamer than BvS Luthor, with almost zero presence, finally gets a scene that gives him proper motivation and ads some much needed gravitas to his scheming. I applaud the actor, who made that one scene really work. As he talked about taking two days to dig up the bodies of his family in Sokovia, I really felt for him.
I will say that Daniel Brühl put in a great performance, especially given the poor role that he had to work with. He had two standout scenes: the torture scene at the start, and his tete-a-tete with Black Panther. But beyond that, the overly convoluted nature of his plan and the rather idiotic way the heroes just fell for it rank and file went beyond suspension of disbelief. Lex Luthor may have had a similarly convoluted plan, and his reasoning may be extremely vague in BvS, but the way it was carried out was such that you could actually believe that Batman and Superman would both fall for it.

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Breja: And in the end, none of it really seems to matter. Everyone fought, but it's pretty much spelled out in the end, that we'll all be friends again, because Infinity War. No one died, even Rhody's injuries are going to be handwaved away. Again, it's more about setting up the future movies, Spider-Man in particular, but also Infinity War, then about doing this one really well. BvS had a shitload of set up for the future movies, I won't deny that, but compared to this it was subtle and well integrated into the story.
Christ, I fucking hated Civil War's ending. That letter scene at the end was just so contrived in such a way that it basically made the entire movie worthless. The whole point of Civil War was to change the dynamic of Cap's and Iron Man's relationship. Not only was the final battle ridiculously petty (and not only did the actual dispute over the Accords vanish into thin air), but the whole forgiveness angle just felt unnecessarily forced and typically MCU.

Funnily enough, one of my favourite MCU movies after the Iron Man trilogy and Avengers 1 is Thor: The Dark World, despite it having the second-worst villain in the stable. There's one scene where it looked like the MCU was finally taking a risk: Frigga's death. OK, she was a comparatively minor character, but the loss was felt, the funeral scene was beautiful, and the way it changed (perhaps a little heavy-handedly) the dynamic between Thor and Loki was outstanding. It didn't matter that Malekith was about as interesting as a Windows manual - the film was never about him. It was about Thor's relationship with his family. MCU characters need to suffer genuine loss to make the lasting relationship dynamics more interesting.

Were it not for the very last shot of BvS (which strangely reminded me of the final "Phoenix" shot of X2) and WB's sloppy marketing that made it clear that Henry Cavill had already been cast as Superman in Justice League Part 1, the ending of BvS would have been incredible. Nobody could have imagined that a movie would have dared to kill off Superman. It was a film that took a clever risk that, for various reasons not directly related to the film, didn't quite pay off.
this movie suck.
the only good super hero movies I have seen are the dark knight batman movies, but there are some pretty superhero movies that are just ok but don't suck.

this civil war suck like batman v superman.
ant man and deadpool are just bad movies (but are fun to watch), civil war and batman v superman suck so hard that is difficult to watch them (there is no good plot, only a lots of good action scenes (too much) and many events (too many))...
there is no villain, no story, boring action, boring action, change of scenary, action again, change of scenary etc...

I cannot even remember what was the name of the villain in those movies.
the worst thing is the confusionary story... if you haven't watched all the stupid marvel movies you cannot enjoy that movie...
try to watch any the dark knight movie.... it just work.

civil war and batman v superman are really similar... too many characters, no good villain, too many action scenes, too many change of scenary. still I think batman v superman is a little (just a little) better (it still suck hard, it is still a really bad movie)... for 2 reason, batman vs superman is a good fight fun to watch and the beginning of the movie is good (until they go to hawaii/indie or something like that I don't remember).
Post edited May 12, 2016 by LiefLayer