I could argue that direct control disqualifies a game from being an RPG.

Yep, it is; that's fair. See, I've been playing RPG's since Dragon Warrior 1 (AKA Dragon Quest 1) on the NES.

Anyways, I think my thought of the CRPG being a certain specific way is b/c I normally identify the CRPG as stuff from BioWare era, with real-time combat with the strategic pause. So - that's stuff like Planescape Torment, BG1, BG2, Icewind Dale 1, Icewind Dale 2, NWN1, NWN2.

Sure, there were other CRPG's that had turn-based combat back in that era - such as Fallout 1+2.

I probably should just say BioWare-like CRPG's then.

Yeah, I agree with this. RPG is a diverse genre, so different kinds of RPGs fit.

I am on mobile.

As far as i know, Computer RPG games come from physical RPG games, though i never played those. So the debate is how far can we stretch the definition of an RPG before it's stretched so far you cannot see any similarities to the original.

Look at Rise of the Tomb Raider, for instance. It does employ some RPG mechanics, like XP and levelling up. But calling it an RPG would be idiotic.

Similarly, i wouldn't call Witcher games to be RPG's, but rather third person perspective open world games that employ some RPG mechanics, like levelling up, crafting, quests. But again, to call it an RPG would be an insult to Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2 which had much more complex systems. Which doesn't mean that the game is bad, it's just not a pure RPG

Do you even know what the letters RPG means?

Rocket propelled grenade.

Nah seriously. Role playing game. So what, do you think a an FPS game with dialogue option could be classified as an RPG cause you are roleplaying a character?

RPG games = Role Playing Game games

My answer is yes. It's a role playing game game because you play a role and there is a fail state.

By that logic Maniac Mansion and Golden Axe would be RPGs, too, wouldn't they?

Funny, this conversation again.

"Is Diablo a real RPG?" What is this? 1997? :-D

Of course!

And most of these role-playing games are then "simulations", "action" and "adventure" games as well. I admit it's tempting to take everything literally and completely undermine any kind of traditional genre categorizations, because that way we wouldn't need to see discussions like this one ever again. ;)

Diablo-style games are definitely fake RPGs. They are action games, not RPG games.

However, there are some games that have a Diablo-like perspective and/or Diablo-like gameplay which are RPGs. But definitely not Diablo itself, nor Path of Exile, or Torchlight, nor Grim Dawn, nor any other of the Diablo clones.

Not really. The earliest games in this genre (i.e. Ultima, Wizardry, orthanc, pedit5, Akalabeth) did in deed have some influence from tabeltop D&D games, but the influences where much more from books and other older games such as Chess and Adventure. It was later that tabletop games where made into digital versions.

Diablo, by the way, has direct linage to Rogue.... is Rogue a RPG?

Most importantly, this DOES NOT answer the question what an 'real' or 'fake' RPG is.

you are using the term 'rpg mechanics', but have not told what a RPG is...

Van Helsing cannot really be lumped in with those other games because it has a much deeper story & characterization than those other games do. Van Helsing is much more of a real RPG than they are. The other ones are straight-up action games, not RPGs.

By that definition, then almost every video game is a RPG, except for a few Adventures games that have no way to die and/or lose (but even many Adventure games have fail states too).