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General discussionDEFCON's DRM is still active, support doesn't give a crap(555 posts)(555 posts)
(555 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 06, 2015
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SirPrimalform: They've been knowingly selling a game with DRM for... who knows exactly how long?
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Thaumaturge: This depends on just what they thought, which we don't know. It's entirely plausible, it seems to me, that they thought--mistakenly--that they were selling a game with neutralised DRM (which I find perfectly acceptable).
Another possibility was that Introversion said "Oh, we fixed that from our side. Don't bother with it. It won't happen again." , and GOG thought "OK, then. I'm fine with that. Less work for me."
I wish that the response from GOG would have been "NO! You gave us a game with active DRM. That is a breach of contract. We demand a new version of the game with no active DRM. Deal with it! If you don't like our principles, don't do business with us."

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

Are you this lenient with everyone? The subprime mortgage crisis was just people making mistakes. The Costa Concordia disaster was a guy making a mistake. Mistakes carry consequences! If the only consequence of GOG neglecting their principles is me being sad about it, what incentive will GOG have to behave next time? No! If GOG messes up, I'll walk out, and I'll do it loudly! I'll take my money to where I'm treated with respect.

I understand that some may feel that we are overreacting. "It works! Stop complaining! It will be fixed soon." But I don't enjoy being lied to, even if I'm being told pleasant things. It is a matter of principles. You may look at this as a slip with one game out of 1000, but I look at it as a breach of trust that will strain my hopes of a successful long term relationship. Personally, the problem is not this episode itself (which is quite serious on its own), but what it means.

-----

Maybe you'll understand better if you read the soap opera version:
Yeah, GOG! I know you were making out with that DRM b*tch! SirPrimalform saw you two! How long have you been doing it behind my back? 3 years? How can I believe you now?! DON'T TOUCH ME!!! I don't want to catch any of that STD cr*p! You'll be sleeping on the sofa from now on! I'll need to think carefully about this. You're no better than the others!
Post edited July 06, 2015 by Gede
Posted July 06, 2015
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Thaumaturge: I'm defending them not because I defend them regardless of their actions, but because my perception of this situation, and of the actions of the people at GOG (that we know of), is different to yours.

I'm inclined to echo rtcvb32's feeling: I find this not alarming, but slightly unnerving.

Indeed, and I did say that I considered their specific approach in this case to have been poorly thought-out.

(Of course, it's possible that this resulted from slippage of GOG's principles--but it also seems quite possible to me that it resulted from simple error: the people at GOG are, well, human (I presume :P), and thus are likely to make mistakes sometimes.)

They've had this pointed out, and been told that it's not acceptable, and have indicated that they're attempting to fix the problem. This is enough for me.

I gather that they viewed it as having been neutralised: active but ineffective. They were mistaken, it seems, and this second issue seems to have caused them to realise as much, and--if I interpret Ciris' post correctly--they are now rectifying the issue, having put in a short-term stop-gap while prompting the developer to produce a long-term solution.

Perhaps; for myself, I'm inclined to think that doing then what they're doing now might have been a better approach than pulling the game. They didn't then, but they are doing so now.

This depends on just what they thought, which we don't know. It's entirely plausible, it seems to me, that they thought--mistakenly--that they were selling a game with neutralised DRM (which I find perfectly acceptable).
Yes, they mistakenly thought the DRM was neutralised, but after the first time the key was blacklisted it's clear that the DRM was in fact active. The fact that they didn't do anything about it then is what I'm concerned about. Continuing to sell the game after that point is downright fraudulent.

Also, if any blues are passing, I'm still waiting for a response to my support ticket. =(
Post edited July 06, 2015 by SirPrimalform
Posted July 06, 2015
It shows as updated in my library, so is it fixed now?
Posted July 06, 2015
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leon30: It shows as updated in my library, so is it fixed now?
I was going to ask the same thing. The log mentions better offline support.
Posted July 06, 2015
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rtcvb32: But yes they should have put more attention to it once it was originally noticed... Unless they already had their hands full...
It would appear that's always the case. Besides, knowingly selling a game with DRM is far from a trivial matter and should have been among their top priorities.

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rtcvb32: .. at which point it's just going to have to be put on hold until they catch up.
In short, Soon™.

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Gede: Maybe you'll understand better if you read the soap opera version:
Yeah, GOG! I know you were making out with that DRM b*tch! SirPrimalform saw you two! How long have you been doing it behind my back? 3 years? How can I believe you now?! DON'T TOUCH ME!!! I don't want to catch any of that STD cr*p! You'll be sleeping on the sofa from now on! I'll need to think carefully about this. You're no better than the others!
GOG: But she swore she was STD-free! Look, I even got it in writing!
[Pulls out a crumpled paper napkin covered in handwritten scrawls and signed with a lipstick kiss.]
What?! No the condom slipped off at some point... and when I noticed I already had my hands full so it would have to wait. Anyway, she did get an abortion and I only have the scabs now. Alright, let's shag!
Post edited July 06, 2015 by Lemon_Curry
Posted July 06, 2015
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leon30: It shows as updated in my library, so is it fixed now?
Interesting question. I'm not exactly inclined to take GOG at their word right now since it seems we have drastically differing ideas of what DRM-free actually means... We'll have to check to see if it's phoning home.

EDIT: Ok, so the new version is completely offline. No phoning home and no multiplayer. But they've added a new shortcut for multiplayer which basically starts the version we had before.

So there is a version with seemingly no ability to connect to the internet at all (no key check and no multiplayer) and a version that does support multiplayer and does have the key check.

I'm ok with this as a solution, but it shouldn't have taken this thread to get it done. That key was revoked for quite some time and it wasn't even the first time it had happened. There was plenty of time for GOG and the developer to solve the problem.

This whole situation has rather turned me off actually playing the game, but I understand if GOG won't refund me now as the 'technical issue' has been solved. Still, I would like a refund if GOG will do it.
Post edited July 06, 2015 by SirPrimalform
Posted July 06, 2015
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SirPrimalform:
now to sort out all those games with the steam_api.dll in them! ;D

well done tho - SirGeneralPrimalform!
Posted July 06, 2015
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SirPrimalform: EDIT: Ok, so the new version is completely offline. No phoning home and no multiplayer. But they've added a new shortcut for multiplayer which basically starts the version we had before.
If it is actually FIXED now, not just 'fixed' while awaiting the FIXED version, then I'll cancel my refund request (which is at the 'choose which refund option you want - since we can't credit your 2-year old order back to your credit card' stage).

Today I'm just back from holiday; so if we're still waiting, then tomorrow I'll probably choose my refund option. I've had enough SOON™ and GOOD NEWS™ to wait based on that.

But, already fixed? I'll accept that fast of a response as a now proper correction of a previously improper handled situation and originally improperly sold DRM'd game.
Posted July 06, 2015
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SirPrimalform: This whole situation has rather turned me off actually playing the game, but I understand if GOG won't refund me now as the 'technical issue' has been solved. Still, I would like a refund if GOG will do it.
Given that DRM-free [goes and checks]. Given that one of the principles of GOG is that their games are DRM-free, and that you did bring this to their attention to get it fixed. Really you should get your money back and GOG should let you keep the game.

I know to many this might seem quite a small deal to some, but you told them about the problem and they should be respectful enough to acknowledge that (free game). I agree that this thread being as long as it is was unnecessary, this solution should have been the first build accepted onto the site.
I am willing to personally believe that this slipped them by, that a mistake happened. As they do. Yet GOG should be far more careful about these things and also be more open and honest. They have claimed to care about their customers, so they should care enough to admit they can make mistakes and will look into any others brought up by their user base in the future.
To treat us like the adults and speak to us as such.
Posted July 06, 2015
I second the above. A free game sounds like a nice reward for helping them fulfill their core values
Posted July 06, 2015
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Celton88: I second the above. A free game sounds like a nice reward for helping them fulfill their core values
what a coincidence, today's comic echos this...

SAM: It's a burden, but i'm willing to suffer free meals and lodging for the good of my crew.
Posted July 07, 2015
DEFCON just updated...
Posted July 07, 2015
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rtcvb32: DEFCON just updated...
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/defcons_drm_is_still_active_support_doesnt_give_a_crap/post338

Or do you mean again?

'night everyone.
Posted July 07, 2015
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SirPrimalform: Or do you mean again?
Not sure. I saw there was an update and commented on it. Then checked up 'what updated' and it seemed to have been updated 6 hours ago... Which coincides with that post...
Posted July 07, 2015
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SirPrimalform: EDIT: Ok, so the new version is completely offline. No phoning home and no multiplayer. But they've added a new shortcut for multiplayer which basically starts the version we had before.

So there is a version with seemingly no ability to connect to the internet at all (no key check and no multiplayer) and a version that does support multiplayer and does have the key check.
Thank you for letting us know. Was the single player version the unregistered demo (1 vs 1 game) or the registered demo (more than 1 CPU opponent)?
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Gede: Maybe you'll understand better if you read the soap opera version:
Yeah, GOG! I know you were making out with that DRM b*tch! SirPrimalform saw you two! How long have you been doing it behind my back? 3 years? How can I believe you now?! DON'T TOUCH ME!!! I don't want to catch any of that STD cr*p! You'll be sleeping on the sofa from now on! I'll need to think carefully about this. You're no better than the others!
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Lemon_Curry: GOG: But she swore she was STD-free! Look, I even got it in writing!
[Pulls out a crumpled paper napkin covered in handwritten scrawls and signed with a lipstick kiss.]
What?! No the condom slipped off at some point... and when I noticed I already had my hands full so it would have to wait. Anyway, she did get an abortion and I only have the scabs now. Alright, let's shag!
That was quite comical! :-)
Post edited July 07, 2015 by Gede
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionDEFCON's DRM is still active, support doesn't give a crap(555 posts)(555 posts)
(555 posts)