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mqstout: GOG is, one might say, "excessively curated". At the very least, they need clear transparency in their rejections. It's not like we don't get shit games (Surgeon Simulator?...) and super-niche (Hatoful Boyfriend?...) [or super-niche shit, if you're talking Redshirt] despite the curation.
When it comes to sale numbers at least Hatoful Boyfriend is not a niche game, so it might have been a "safe bet" for GOG, I guess.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/steam-gauge-measuring-the-most-popular-steam-games-of-2014/3/
Here broken down for Japanese games only:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1004506
Post edited January 19, 2016 by Piranjade
low rated
Blow not wanting to jump through hoops negotiation-wise might also have to do with how little time he has to devote to it. He's putting the finishing touches on the project he's spent all of his Braid profits and seven years of his life on while doing countless interviews to support the release.
Post edited January 19, 2016 by Barry_Woodward
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PaterAlf: And I really like puzzle games.
Finally! A man after my own heart!
Starward Rogue from Arcen Games:

"GOG isn't going to be carrying this on launch, because they don't feel like it's a fit for their audience and I guess they are trying to really be very picky these days on what games they choose so each one gets extra promotion. That said, never fear: there are some MAJOR promotional things we have going on with another huge partner. I love GOG, but this one has been very frustrating to say the least. There is absolutely no barrier to this going through from our side; my hope is that after they see what a huge success this hopefully is on Steam and Humble (and others) that they'll jump on board as well. I'm sure there's more to this story, but if there is your guess is as good as mine."

https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,18352.msg197061.html#msg197061
Post edited January 20, 2016 by Barry_Woodward
No one's curating can be perfect. There will be hits and misses no matter what your criteria. The only real question is: Is GOG turning a profit and growing? If they are, then they are succeeding. I'm sure, just as in any company, they are constantly measuring their actual sales against the number they used for their decision-making. And over time they adjust their negotiations to maximize successes.

I don't think transparency will help them get better. It will just mean hiring more people whose sole job is to apologize to disappointed forum-goers.

I also don't think it would help them to change their mission to being an archive or repository of DRM-free versions of every game possible. That would be catering to a niche group, and I cannot see it increasing profits.
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Barry_Woodward: Starward Rogue from Arcen Games:

"GOG isn't going to be carrying this on launch, because they don't feel like it's a fit for their audience and I guess they are trying to really be very picky these days on what games they choose so each one gets extra promotion. That said, never fear: there are some MAJOR promotional things we have going on with another huge partner. I love GOG, but this one has been very frustrating to say the least. There is absolutely no barrier to this going through from our side; my hope is that after they see what a huge success this hopefully is on Steam and Humble (and others) that they'll jump on board as well. I'm sure there's more to this story, but if there is your guess is as good as mine."

https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,18352.msg197061.html#msg197061
Yeah, I was really surprised that Chris answered my gog release question so clearly. Im currently beta testing Starward Rogue and in my opinion it would definitely fit nicely in here. Well maybe gog will change its mind later. Just strange they denied a game from a publisher/developer that is already here.
Post edited January 20, 2016 by Matruchus
Steam release schedule

vs

Gog release schedule
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Barry_Woodward: Starward Rogue from Arcen Games:

"GOG isn't going to be carrying this on launch, because they don't feel like it's a fit for their audience and I guess they are trying to really be very picky these days on what games they choose so each one gets extra promotion. That said, never fear: there are some MAJOR promotional things we have going on with another huge partner. I love GOG, but this one has been very frustrating to say the least. There is absolutely no barrier to this going through from our side; my hope is that after they see what a huge success this hopefully is on Steam and Humble (and others) that they'll jump on board as well. I'm sure there's more to this story, but if there is your guess is as good as mine."

https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,18352.msg197061.html#msg197061
I'm not sure how GOG plans to expand their audience and their business without releasing games that might push the boundaries of what "fit their audience". There's a fine line to balance between proper curation (something I don't blame GOG for trying to do to ensure high quality games and to differentiate themselves from Steam) and offering a properly diverse selection in order to stay relevant. Rejecting a promising game from a developer with whom they already have an established relationship is not it.
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Barry_Woodward: Jonathan Blow, the godfather of the modern indie era:

"I finally read the contract GoG sent me and it is predictably lame. They aren't bad compared to XBLA's contracts in the 2010-ish era, but they are just written presuming that the developer is desperate and really wants to be on GoG -- which for successful developers is not the case. The general tactic of any game publisher is that they offer you a contract full of stuff you have to argue with them for a long time to take out -- IF you even have the bargaining power to push them, which most indies don't. At this point my tactic is to go meta and say look, fuck you, this process is insulting and wastes my time, you know which terms I am going to argue about, so just change those before you send me anything. I only bother arguing with the few big channels that I really *need* to be on. The thing about this tactic is it usually ends the conversation -- I think it tends to be too weird for publisher peoples' egos to actually deal with a statement like that ... so then they just don't get the game. It is fine though, we will ensure there is a DRM-free download somewhere."
how is it that you think gog is being unreasonable to him after this? I don't know what the legal was and I don't know what gog said to him and he to them and the tone of it and all that.

but, the lawyers are here now. it's all here. it was started to bein done this way cause it got. people didn't just do all of it cause they thought it would be a cracking lark! or something. if you're gog, what is the affect to you of going along with something like that? does the board of CDPRED oversee all the due diligence on that? or do their lawyers and business guys? if it's the latter, what do the business guys say when they report up? yeah, they didn't wanna play ball with us, like at all, so we just gave them whatever they want.

don't get me wrong I'm not arguing his point or criticizing his sentiments towards the situation but, if he comes off like he's the hottest shit going and gog don't agree, well that's just not gonna work then really. that doesn't make gog unreasonable.
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Barry_Woodward: Blow not wanting to jump through hoops negotiation-wise might also have to do with how little time he has to devote to it. He's putting the finishing touches on the project he's spent all of his Braid profits and seven years of his life on while doing countless interviews to support the release.
ooohhh, the poor and doomed (not starving) artist...... :o)

Anyway, I don't see why he should have some special treatment. Contracts are more or less the same between distribution platform with the same type of cut and distribution deals (non-exclusive and such). The guy wants to act like a San Francisco diva but even Kim Kardashian has more class than him..... Actually, I wrote to him a spiteful tweet once because of some snobbish behaviour a few months ago (I think it was a money matter if I remember well.....) and I wasn't not the only one.

So let's look at the game shall we? -> Go To Steam..........
..........
..........
36,99€......... o_O.......
............................
OK Bye.....

Wait! Let's check the humble store.......
..........
"get it for Windows, DRM-free or on Steam!".....
......
"or"....."OR".....o_O !!!!!!!!
.............................
Directly from his twitter when asked about it:
"We decided not to do that for this game because of key resellers."
..............................
OK, I'm not gonna do a wordplay with your name Mr Blow but just fuck off........

Damn, I should stop putting my finger on the "dot" button :o)
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catpower1980: 36,99€......... o_O.......
overpriced and overhyped

edit :

Maybe this is the reason why is it expensive .

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/01/14/meet-the-voice-actors-of-the-witness/
Post edited January 20, 2016 by Painted_Doll
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mqstout: GOG is, one might say, "excessively curated". At the very least, they need clear transparency in their rejections. It's not like we don't get shit games (Surgeon Simulator?...) and super-niche (Hatoful Boyfriend?...) [or super-niche shit, if you're talking Redshirt] despite the curation.
This.

My issue isn't that they curate their store, it's that they give you no way of figuring out WHY your game was rejected. Maybe they genuinely feel there isn't enough interest, maybe whoever fields submissions just happens to dislike it, maybe nobody even bothered to look (in fact, I'm 99% certain they rejected my last submission without even trying it). Maybe it's something else. Everyone gets the same form email, so who knows? A lot of the time the whole "this wouldn't be a good fit for our audience" sentiment doesn't even make sense, when you look at other games on the store.

Steam is easier to get on, easier to work with, and provides a much bigger audience. So it's no wonder many small indie devs don't bother with GOG. The only reason I still try submitting games is because I like the site and the community, not because there's actually any business benefit.

And don't get me wrong, I understand why GOG does things the way they do. Likely they don't have the resources to deal with a huge number of games, and being clearer about why they reject titles could potentially open up one of several cans of worms. And they're free to run their store however they want. But you can't have your cake and eat it. You can't be the little guy and make things difficult for indies, then expect indies to flock to your service. And people really need to understand that a lot of indies CAN'T distribute through GOG. It's not an option. And giving them grief about Steam's DRM doesn't help matters.

Also, it's not that having somewhat more transparent, looser curation would instantly lead to the mess Steam has. Steam lets pretty much any small indie onto their store, GOG lets pretty much no small indies onto their store. There is a middle ground.
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catpower1980: 36,99€......... o_O.......
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Painted_Doll: overpriced and overhyped
Actually, I rewatched the trailer to refresh my memory and yeah, it's definitely the hype that will sell it....

Let's forget who made the game and all this stuff and let's watch the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-RsawGjPY

Now, let's dig into some recent productions in the Myst-like genre:
http://www.gog.com/game/dream
http://www.gog.com/game/mind_path_to_thalamus
http://www.gog.com/game/ether_one
http://www.gog.com/game/niko_through_the_dream

Of course there are more on Steam but still.... from an uninformed customer point of view, what's the difference between those games and The Witness when I watch all those trailers back-to-back? It's like if I was trying the same experience with some japanese shmups footages :o)

Braid was maybe a revolution when it came out but things happened during the last 7 years....

EDIT:
Bonus: JBlow explains the concept of the panel puzzles that we see a lot in the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgSL54NAT5Q

I think I should grab those two assets and toy with them to make spoof of The Witness when I have some free time:
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/50924
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/32129
Post edited January 20, 2016 by catpower1980
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Painted_Doll: overpriced and overhyped
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catpower1980: Actually, I rewatched the trailer to refresh my memory and yeah, it's definitely the hype that will sell it....

Let's forget who made the game and all this stuff and let's watch the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-RsawGjPY

Now, let's dig into some recent productions in the Myst-like genre:
http://www.gog.com/game/dream
http://www.gog.com/game/mind_path_to_thalamus
http://www.gog.com/game/ether_one
http://www.gog.com/game/niko_through_the_dream

Of course there are more on Steam but still.... from an uninformed customer point of view, what's the difference between those games and The Witness when I watch all those trailers back-to-back? It's like if I was trying the same experience with some japanese shmups footages :o)

Braid was maybe a revolution when it came out but things happened during the last 7 years....
I dunno, the overall style of The Witness appeals a lot more to me than any of the games you listed. Also, you're kinda comparing... well, not exactly apples to oranges, but maybe oranges to tangerines. The Witness obviously has a strong focus on puzzles, whereas the games you list are more like ambient walking simulators (at least as far as I'm aware). Atmopsphere-wise they're similar, but they aren't exactly filling the same niche. Just as there's actually a big difference between puzzle platformers and Mario-style platformers.

I'll agree that The Witness doesn't look particularly special if you take Blow's name off it, but I do think it's a bit of a different thing. At least as far as I've seen.
The game would be a financial failure without the voice actors . They will sell the game not the style or the puzzles .