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Sword of the Stars: Ground Pounders: a hex-based sci-fi strategy game featuring the tanks, air craft and infantry of the Sword of the Stars universe.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kerberosproductions/ground-pounders
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Crosmando: What I don't understand is, what's the deal with making spinoffs of a mediocre 4X strategy game which had a terrible sequel. I like "The Pit", but what did it have to do with Sword of the Stars besides the throwaway space sci-fi setting?
I don't know, personally, I just hope Kerberos does well with it so I can see more stuff related to The Pit. Maybe a possibly rumored squad-based game I think I heard about somewhere in their forums, although that last bit could be just wishful thinking on my part :)
Post edited September 01, 2013 by JudasIscariot
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JudasIscariot: I don't know, personally, I just hope Kerberos does well with it so I can see more stuff related to The Pit. Maybe a possibly rumored squad-based game I think I heard about somewhere in their forums, although that last bit could be just wishful thinking on my part :)
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Crosmando: Right, but do you know who owns SoTS trademark? Wasn't the original published by Stardock?
From where I stand, Kerberos seems to own the trademark considering they've developed a game titled "Sword of the Stars: The Pit" and I haven't heard of any lawsuits being launched their way about the name. I don't know the specifics about the first SoTS game as far as publishing and whatnot.

Maybe ask Kerberos themselves?
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gandalf.nho: Mighty No. 9, classic Japanese side-scrolling action, evolved and transformed by Keiji Inafune and an all-star team of veteran Mega Man devs
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Starmaker: $99 backer-exclusive in-game content alert.
I think if you help get the game made then you deserve a bit of exclusive content as long as the content isn't kept exclusive for all time. See how Fist Puncher did it with the Robot Unicorn DLC character.
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JudasIscariot: I think if you help get the game made then you deserve a bit of exclusive content as long as the content isn't kept exclusive for all time. See how Fist Puncher did it with the Robot Unicorn DLC character.
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Starmaker: ... but it will be. I'm absolutely okay with "backers get X for free with their $45 pledge, everyone else will have to pay $99". I'm also okay with things that are naturally limited ("be a playable character", "get a pretty boxed copy now because those are expensive and we won't be making any more unless there is enough demand for a second run and you damn well know there won't be"). But nonscarce backer-only rewards can rot in the deepest pit of hell. Consider that between the pledge drive and the game's release, (BigDecimal) OMGWTFBBQ people will come of age and get jobs and credit cards.
I'll play Devil's advocate here, if you don't mind :)

What proof do you have that the nonscarce backer rewards (exclusive transformation, in this case) won't make their way as a DLC?

Why do you consider backer-exclusive digital content to be a bad thing? After all, the people who put up the money for a product that doesn't exist anywhere except as a few pieces of concept art should have some reward for believing in the idea. I can understand in the cases where BE-content makes a game completely different but if it doesn't affect the game and appears to be mostly cosmetic, where is the problem?

Keep in mind, I am taking the opposite stance for debating purposes only and I don't intend to troll you, Starmaker :D
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JudasIscariot: What proof do you have that the nonscarce backer rewards (exclusive transformation, in this case) won't make their way as a DLC?
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Starmaker: Uhm... because they say it's backer-exclusive? If they release this content as DLC (even paid DLC), they'll be breaking their promise to backers, whether it's a genuine change of heart or planned in advance. If we can't trust the project creator, whom can we trust?

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JudasIscariot: Why do you consider backer-exclusive digital content to be a bad thing? After all, the people who put up the money for a product that doesn't exist anywhere except as a few pieces of concept art should have some reward for believing in the idea. I can understand in the cases where BE-content makes a game completely different but if it doesn't affect the game and appears to be mostly cosmetic, where is the problem?
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Starmaker: Completionism, history/archival, ideological objection to retrograde nonsense. Basically, all the reasons GOG aims to provide complete versions of games, and then some.

An American-Japanese printmaker explains why he doesn't number prints.

They take the single best thing of the digital era, turn it upside down, and make a kickstarter reward out of it. Literally, "if you like what we are doing, give us money". Aaaaaaand I don't. I have pledged to some questionable kickstarters, but it was despite their shady reward practices, not because. IP holders have only one excuse for not selling their (uncontested) digital goods at any given moment, which is distributing them for free.

Specifically high-tier digital specials (as opposed to extras for all backers, like Larian's epic trunks) are honestly an insult to every low-tier backer. Like horse armor, but in every way worse.

Maybe pretending that physical limitations such as limited availability apply to digital goods works on the audience as a whole. It only makes me go wtf at the obvious nonsense and recall that all digital stuff can be gotten for the low, low price of $ε (not literally as in "screw this, I'm going to pirate" - more of a general awareness that prices are arbitrary, at this moment a great number of great games and mods are being sold for peanuts or distributed for free, and in half a year this game will join them).

Incidentally, I think Larian's Imperial Edition is a great move. They were giving extra stuff for free to people who believed in the game and the company to take a dive old-school-style, before the reviews and letsplays started appearing; people who didn't, for whatever reason, now have the opportunity to pay for the upgrade. If it applies to post-release sales, as G-Doc says here, the GOG-exclusive Shadow Warrior katana is okay, too.
Interesting points.

Forgive me if I am being thick here, but the bit about numbering prints could be a bit off due to the fact that at the base level, no extras just the game itself, the content is the same there's no numbering of the base content. For X amount of money everyone gets the same game. In my mind if a backer pays more than the base price, shouldn't they expect a bit more? What incentives, rewards, additional goodies would you give to those that believe so much in your idea that they want to pay far more than is theoretically necessary?

Your words:

"Specifically high-tier digital specials (as opposed to extras for all backers, like Larian's epic trunks) are honestly an insult to every low-tier backer. Like horse armor, but in every way worse. "

What about the opposite? What about being a backer who plunked down $50 or 50 Euros for the game, got their name in the credits, and some other digital, no physical goodies, rewards and then you see the game appear in a bunch of bundles and people get it for a dollar or $5? I've seen people get a bit upset when they bought a game full price a day before it went on sale for half the price or even 75%.

"Maybe pretending that physical limitations such as limited availability apply to digital goods"

I am looking at two Kickstarters right now. One is the Mighty No.9 one and the other is Larian's Divinity Original Sin. I am looking at the reward tiers for both and the only physical limitations I see are those that apply to physical content ($95 on Original Sin had a box copy, printed manual, OST CD, and a map while Mighty No. 9 has a $500 tier that involves helping to create a challenge for the game and I think this one may have been limited because "too many cooks spoil the soup" so to speak). The tiers that featured only digital content had no limits so anyone with the right amount of money could buy that reward if they so chose. Unless the "physical limitation" you are referring to means "limited because the Kickstarter is closed", I fail to see the "physical limitations" or "limited availability". Care to enlighten me on that? :D

"Incidentally, I think Larian's Imperial Edition is a great move. They were giving extra stuff for free to people who believed in the game and the company to take a dive old-school-style, before the reviews and letsplays started appearing"

Could you show me the source of this? The only place I can find anything remotely Dragon Commander-related on Kickstarter is the Original Sin kickstarter and I was sure there was a separate KS for DC as well. Yes, I used Google but not well enough I suppose :P If you're referring to Original Sin, the extra stuff applied to tiers $40 and above, unless I am reading things wrong, so if you only paid in, let's say, $20 then you didn't get the extra stuff.
Post edited September 01, 2013 by JudasIscariot
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SLP2000: I fully support Starmaker here.

I think backer exclusive in-game content is a bad face of Kickstarter, it's like doing a worse copy of a game for all those who did not know about kickstarter/had no money during that short period of time when kickstarter project is running etc.
Like I said before, I am just playing Devil's advocate here for debate purposes only :)

So what would you put in place of backer-exclusive content in order to entice complete strangers to give more than the usual amount to your kickstarter?
Post edited September 01, 2013 by JudasIscariot
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gandalf.nho: Hadron's Forge, exploration/building sandbox sci-fi RPG
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Starmaker: Exclusive digital content.
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.
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For $5000.
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.
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To up to 12 people on Earth.

Judas, I win.
Naming a planet isn't the same as actual content. Also, it's never stated that non-backers wouldn't get the backer-named planets.

"NANOCOMPOSITE - Name a planet in the Epsilon Eridani star system! Within reason."

So no win yet :P
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JudasIscariot: Naming a planet isn't the same as actual content. Also, it's never stated that non-backers wouldn't get the backer-named planets.

"NANOCOMPOSITE - Name a planet in the Epsilon Eridani star system! Within reason."

So no win yet :P
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Starmaker: Whoops, embarrassing typo. It's $2000, for access to the personal suite, available to the lucky six who are fast enough to grab that tier, the five 5k pledges, and the single 10k. (Waitaminute 2000? That changes everything, pledging right now.) $1000, $500, $250, $100 and $50 tiers each grant exclusive content limited to backers at that and upper tiers. So, still a win, but marred by puking on the pedestal.
I'll quote the reward tier:

"Personal suite on Alpha Station with a special mission that allows you to become part-owner of Alpha Station for the duration of your single player story mode campaign."

I've highlighted that bit because designing a special mission would take time away from the main game and, as we all know by now, time = money. While the content DOES smack of exclusivity, I think it's only fair to charge for having to design, test, possibly re-design, and ensure that the special mission doesn't just feel like it's thrown in there for the sake of fulfilling a promise. If you're going to put in a special mission you have to ensure that it blends with the entire narrative somehow. I don't know how the designing of a mission goes but I am sure it does take time to do so and do so properly.

As to the other content:

$50 = Space Monkey - so an in-game pet. Exclusive? Yes, but is it really necessary in order to have a complete game?

$100 = Crew locker AKA loot chest. Exclusive? You bet! Still nothing of actual value as far as getting a complete game.

$250 = Crew quarters AKA a slightly bigger loot chest. Exclusive? Yes but still doesn't take away from the completion of the game. Also, designing a room, or anything else in any game, isn't free and may take some small amounts of time.

$500 = Alpha lounge access that is only available in single-player mode. So another room that doesn't sound like it contains anything other than a cosmetic view of space and NPCs and no hint on whether you can get exclusive missions in there. Again, designing this takes time and money.

$1000 = Special story mode mission. Exclusive content that isn't a glorified storage container or a room with a view. Still no details as to whether this isn't a glorified side quest that again takes time and money away from the original scope of the entire design of the game.

Also, from an earlier post of yours:

$15 gets you a DRM-free digital copy, a high-res digital poster of the cover art

That sounds like exclusive digital content for those who don't pay the extra money :P Granted, it's only a $9 difference but the principle appears to remain the same.

So while you may win on some points, consider what you're fighting against and whether the victory is worth the war :)
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gandalf.nho: A space colony city-builder. Hope they have more luck in KS than in IGG:
Terminus

A licensed sequel for the beat'em up River City Ransom:
River City Ransom: Underground

Action platformer/adventure:
The Fall: dark, story driven exploration in an alien world
As long as they keep the original style of the sequel, I am on board with River City Ransom, I loved that game back in the day.