Magnitus: But the rigidity of unions (which could be argued as necessary for employers not to find loopholes to bypass the union) means that exceptional employees don't have much incentive to work extra hard to be exceptional (which in IT is very much needed, you won't be great if you don't put in a significant number of hours outside your 9 to 5 to rampup your skills).

Darvond: Given that many game publishers have shown that they would happily sidestep and loophole unions anyway, I'd rather have lazy workers than having to worry about other issues.

Magnitus: I don't think unionized workers are lazy and I think most workers should probably be unionized.

All I'm saying is that unless they seize the means of production, unions don't benefit exceptional workers in certain professions and in a society where people can spend time outside of work to increase their revenue or otherwise arbitrarily give some people high revenues for doing nothing because they possess something, people who invest time to become better at what they do should be able to monetize that as well, but they won't if they are part of an union.

clarry: You sure have a very narrow and rigid view of unions. That seems to be common for those coming from NA though..

It doesn't have to work like that.

I could join a union right now and it would not change my salary, nor would it prevent me from negotiating a better salary (at my current employer or elsewhere). It's none of my employer's business really, and I don't think the people who are involved in negotiating my salary even know whether I'm in a union or not.

Gudadantza: A Union or syndicate is a right or it should be in any democratic country. Your opposition should be irrelevant, because the rights of the workers can't be under the subjetivity, good or bad will of a CEO, if under the law and achievements of the workers themselves

I remember time ago that I was chatting with a friend of mine and into an hypotetic conversation about these kind of things he defended the philosophical "Hobbesian" cliché -so cool and popular in current times-, that the man was bad by nature.
The matter was that, not surprinsingly, he also defended something similar to you. The boss should balance and manage the rights of the workers for their own good and the company one.
I could only ask him "so, should workers believe a man that is bad by nature?" "And nobody, nor state or adminstration, shoud fiscalize that boss for similar reasons?" "How convenient"

Magnitus: Collective employee working conditions are negotiated in a contract-like way and you don't deviate from the contract, even when an employee is exceptional.

To some extent, it does prevent the employer from circumventing the union and showing favouritism or penalizing employees on things the union doesn't regulate so I get why it tends to be like that. Any leeway you give to the employer weakens the union.

Provide_A_Username: #paladin181, you have been missing some info:

https://apnews.com/article/uwa-strike-gm-ford-stellantis-pay-dacdfe9ec0736f4fbf3ce7ee38b4bcf4

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/24/ceos-100-low-wage-companies-income

https://twitter.com/kerrblimey/status/1702043696672235670

And I might find some related to the SAG-AFTRA if needed.

paladin181: Your first link supported my statement, and the others had nothing to do with it. Terrible union leaders wanting to cripple a country and industry with unrealistic increases on already good paying jobs. I couldn't give a fuck about a guy already making 6 figures a year for driving a forklift wanting to make 40% more just because someone else is. It's FOMO. He has it, so I should, too. No. You're not entitled to something just because someone else gets it.

paladin181: Your first link supported my statement, and the others had nothing to do with it. Terrible union leaders wanting to cripple a country and industry with unrealistic increases on already good paying jobs. I couldn't give a fuck about a guy already making 6 figures a year for driving a forklift wanting to make 40% more just because someone else is. It's FOMO. He has it, so I should, too. No. You're not entitled to something just because someone else gets it.